THE TEMASEK TIMES

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My unpleasant experience at City Harvest Church after being brought there by a female friend

Posted by temasektimes on June 29, 2012

My background: this was in 2000 ish, I was in a pre-u school and one of my classmates was (don’t know how she is now) a staunch believer of City Harvest.

We were never close, she suddenly turned up one day with this weird statement, claiming that she didn’t know how to be my friend and I look like a “lost soul” and wanted me to come to her church. I was on the look out for churches at that point, I have heard of CHC, but didn’t really like it. Decided to give it a benefit of doubt and went to church with her.

Clever packaging of Sunday services

Truly. It was one of those things where there’s a live band, it was in an old movie theater and the acoustics were great. It certainly felt more like a rock concert thing than going to church. For us who were than mostly underage (most of the people surrounding me looked under 21) or who were just on the right age to go clubbing, this was a “healthy” alternative with more people and, on the plus side, with no drunks, it’s easy to network with them as well.

Extra revenue in the form of advertisements, sales of CDs

When I first attended the church, internet was sort of a “new” thing. Not many people had it, and I can’t remember now if they even had a website.

However, even then, they were still selling things. First was Sun Ho’s CDs. To me, it was hilarious. It was like having a commercial break in the middle of the service.

“Do you all love Pastor Ho!?!?!?”

Then, there was some blurb about how great and godly her music was, we should all water our souls with her godly music (unlike others out there, ahem ahem).

Tacky advertisements, they somehow worked. Everyone was, for some reason, worked up into a frenzy, all cheering for the CDs.

Next up was a compilation of bible studies by another pastor. At that point, they hadn’t produced sermons for sale yet, so all these compilation CDs were their main selling points. Yet another tacky blurb, yet another advertisement. Again, people were cheering ceaselessly like it was the best thing they have ever heard.

If you stand up at this point, you could see all the new faces – they were the ones with awkward looks on their faces.

30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns on your church donations

When it came time to throw in tithes, they made a big issue about it. My friend insisted I have to put some money in, even if it was just 5 dollars. As someone who was only working during the holidays, and it wasn’t a holiday then, technically I earn nothing that month. 10% of nothing is still nothing. The cell leader than asked if I was given an allowance, and if I was, I need to give 10% of that – for the glory of my soul and all sorts of nonsense related to that, at which point, I threw in 50 cents in frustration. The awkwardness was overwhelming.

Social pressure to conform in church settings and ease of influence

By the “2nd commercial break”, I had pretty much decided this was not the church for me. I am an introvert. The church was a loud concert that forces me to interact with people.

Furthermore, we were forced to chant to everyone surrounding us that we will bring in 2 more people the next weekend. if you calculate the number of people you “promised” that to, it equates bringing 8 people to the church the next week altogether.

I didn’t like feeling like I am forced to give a tithe. When I eventually went to church, I donated whenever I worked, which amounted to hundreds of dollars – but I was not forced to do it. Tithe used to be the only way pastors/priests could live and maintain the church. These guys live in houses and cars that even I couldn’t afford, so why do they need our donations for?

Also, at the end of the session, there was a cleansing session where everyone is made to chant that we are “backsliders” and we will do better. Then, people who have done wrong during the week need to come up front to be “cleansed”. The ironic part was, while I was fine, my very staunch friend was collapsed in a heap of teary mess. this happened basically all around me and I panicked because, being such an introvert, all eyes were on me.

All these chanting, by the way? Enough of it can brainwash a person.

Finally, there was the after service gathering. Cell groups gather together. At that time, cell groups go by where they lived. I was not located “right” for that cell group, but they “accepted” me, I even got presents, and got called a sister! However, nothing seemed genuine. I was actually scared of them.

Needless to say, thereafter I refused to go back. My friend was then told that I will suffer eternal damnation and it would damage her soul and theirs (the cell groups’) if she keeps associating with me. I haven’t talked to her since.

I found a church where my soul belongs to anyways, and it is one of those “small” churches that is a bit more traditional. Where I found real friends who didn’t just took me to church because she promised other people she had take 2 people to church the next weekend

PANDAREN

*The above was first posted as a comment on The Temasek Times.

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148 Responses to “My unpleasant experience at City Harvest Church after being brought there by a female friend”

  1. i5htar said

    take note that such “”Cell groups”” had INFESTED into NUS and NTU!!!

    • It’s everywhere because the more members recruited the more collections to the church and the people that run the church! I’m truly sorry to see ‘educated’ people can be so gullible to fall into this trap! So easy to wash away your sins just by accepting Jesus ( in today’s word, a ‘bastard’ as he was born out of wedlock). This is 21 st century and the christ followers believe in miracle birth! What a joke!! There is no sin or born sinners, except those who want to belief in it ( your choice).
      To the over zealous church people, perhaps it’s timely to look back into history. When the White missionaries couldn’t concur China, they resort to converting the Chinese leader so that in that way, they control China. That’s why Sun Yat Sun & Chiang Kai Sek and the Soong sisters ( father was a convert and was sent to USA missionary school & was sent back to China to carry out American sinister work). Yet, some of this educated Chinese still fall into this Christ the saver! Safe from who? I’m so sorry for these lost souls.

      • christine said

        I’m sorry that Christians have made u feel this way. We are not all like this and some things get twisted when human being s come into the picture and they make mistakes.

        This is the 21st century and yes I believe in a miracle birth. In this century I saw people being healed of 4th stage cancer, prayers being answered, visions of angels, and so many more.

        Yes there is corruption and evil at work, but there is also love. I know a lot of Christian s can’t show this to u but I want to let u know, that some of us would still be Christian s even if we have nothing, no matter what religion the emperor is, and whatever the situation. Not everybody has a halfbaked belief in god. Thank u for listening.

      • UTTER RUBBISH! said

        @ Christine You claimed that you believe in miracle birth, and people being healed of 4th stage cancer…then…tell me…why won’t God heal amputees? If God is so powerful that there’s nothing he can’t do and achieve, WHY WON’T GOD HEAL PEOPLE WHOSE LEGS AND ARMS BEING LOST TO ILLNESS OR ACCIDENTS? PLEASE TELL ME, WHY WON’T THE LEGS OR ARMS GROW BACK?!

      • Infidel said

        @UTTER RUBBISH!
        Waa! Where got this sort of god?! I also want to join and convert ASAP to cure my bleeding haemorrhoids!

      • Esj said

        God works his miracles in so many different ways, that we humans cannot see or seldom realise. He does miraculous healing for the sick, anoint them from above. He performed all these physical miracles to show people that God exists – who hears & answers prayers faithfully, help his people when lost or afflicted & guide them always.

        And I’ve read online that many devoted Christians, who also met with medical conditions like amputation or terminal illness, yet God seemed not to heal them. Actually, we believe that God used them as instruments of his Love, Charity and Hope to tell his people that through him, one will grow from strength to strength spiritually, despite being medically or physically challenged.

        After all, the physical body is imperfect but the Soul is perfect.

  2. Truth is, we are all sinners.

    Romans 3:23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

    Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

    Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: if thy brother sin, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

    • Daniel said

      we are all sinners? wtf have we done? Don’t be retarded and copy paste sentences of the bible and start preaching here. It’s annoying. If he sinned, forgive him? some sins are unforgivable.

      • Bai Hu said

        Yes, i agree. The person who said that we sinned is ‘siow’ one.

      • Joel said

        Well if you have done something wrong, even the slightest thing like lust over someone else you have sinned or even thought about someone in furious anger. If you are not guilty of that then I must say you must be God and your comment stands (Y)

        Well what is it good then to live in anger your whole life? I agree some people do bad things to us which are painful, and hurt us real bad. Been there done that. But in this case, how would his life affect you? You are you and he is him.

        I really don’t mean to insult you or anything but.. I guess I was just a little taken aback by your comment.

      • pinoys love to suck cock said

        I used to be christian but now i turn my faith to budhism, not bcause i turn my back on GOd but because my family is christians and tired of facing fake people

      • mj said

        Hello people, do u all understand what is repentance ah? It means not only you are sorry for your wrong actions but also must pay back ah!!! Check your bible lah. Pay back 5x ah.( Exodus 22.) All christian think is say sorry can already. Also one of the 10 commandment is Do NOT STEAL. Unless u think 10 C is not applicable then no need to believe in God becos it is in the 10 C.

      • Joel said

        @PInoys Love to Suck Cock

        Well are there no fake Buddhists too? So in other words, you are turning to Buddhism because people are being douches around you. It’s like saying that ‘Oh I’m not going to eat food anymore because there are crazy people eating food’. Not to spite anything but, have you ever thought about that?

        Wish you a great time and relationship with your God (:

      • christine said

        @Pinoys love to suck cock
        Hi,
        I’m really sorry on behalf of Christian s that make u feel everyontheree is fake. Even I have felt that from Christian s but I do wish that u would consider more ur own beliefs rather than the society attached to what u believe in when considering ur religion. I hope u get to discover the truth for urself. God bless

    • Keit said

      Humans by nature are all born sinners as we are the children of both adam and eve who had sinned towards the Lord. Period!

      • Herpderp said

        So if your parents commit crimes you’re gonna have to go to jail in their place? Such a wonderful world we live in =)

      • Me Gusta said

        but…when I was born, I was innocent, naked, crying for my mummy, and know nothing. what have I sinned? make it clear to me?

        In my belief, we are all born pure and innocent; a white clean cloth without dirt. All wrongdoings to the Lord are done through asking for forgiveness to Him only. Short and sweet. No singing, no concerts, nothing. Once a week we gather for a short prayer and a sermon, 40 mins max and we go on doing our things again. No trances, no crying, nothing. Donations can be 50 cents, it can be 50 bucks. If you can spare 1 dollar, give a dollar. The money goes to the poor anyway, who needs it more than you do.

        In my belief, a smile to a stranger is charity. Giving water to a thirsty dog is heavenly and a meeting up with good friends is a must. Making people happy is next to Godliness.

        It’s simple.

      • Musing said

        U just accept the bible without even using your brain which is god’s gift to u?

        If God created 2 pure souls Adam n eve, so how is Adam at fault for trusting Eve? He loved her and ate what was offered to him and in return for his innocent trust and faith, god decided to PUNISH him. Great to know that bible teaches about love and trust on one hand but then indirectly tells u never trust what your love one offers you. Also shows you how UNmerciful and unreasonable your god is and unforgiving. What a wonderful god u have there to punish the innocent. So don’t trust your friends or your pastor, they might be offering u the evil apple. Oh wait… Looks like your pastor is doing exactly that, Conning u innocent trusting flock.

        U may have sinned but sorry, I think I have not. At least I have go around conning people of money, or being arrogant enough to force others to accept their views. You know the 7 sins? U are suffering one- pride.

      • whatever said

        f*** off, don’t preach BS here pls. Religion is a trap to control people’s minds, and you have fell into it. I pity you.

      • Andy said

        adam and eve are fictitious figures

      • We Are All Born Innocent! said

        keit, you another Kong Hee Fatt Choy spouting shitttt!!!! WE ARE ALL BORN INNOCENT, EQUAL, FREE!!! Those 2 copulating ones you mentioned are sinners! NOT US! Make this clear!

      • christine said

        @Musing
        God specifically told Adam not to eat the apple, despite that, he did it anyway. So it wasn’t out of trust that Adam ate the apple, he knew what he was doing was wrong.that changes the whole playing field.

        God also didn’t want to punish Adam and Eve. God is all good and hence when man chose to push away God, by sinning, they isolated themselves from him. God gave man free will and they chose to sin, so it wasn’t God’s intention for them to suffer.

        Sin doesn’t have to be stealing or whatever big thing, it means anything that separates u from God and since God is essentially good and love, anything that does not embody this is a sin, because it tears us away from God even more.

        God is merciful still throughout this. No matter how we push him away, he still runs for us. He still sent his son to die, so that somehow a way could be made for us back into his arms again.

        I know a lot of u on this page have met Christian s who don’t act like they should. People who do horrible things that make me as a Christian ashamed to be categorized with them. But some of us Christian s actually have a relationship with Christ. And those who do will tell u how much God loves each and every one of u no matter how many times u tell him u don’t want him. So I’m sorry on behalf of all the fake Christian s out there who have a lot to say but don’t have a lot to prove. But I ask that u pardon them because every single one of us fall short of God’s awesomeness, and if u look at urself, there are times when u really hurt people too ( cause we all do, really ) .and yes what they done has affected more people on a larger scale but really, the damage is done.

    • AK said

      Hei; If you want to be sinner go ahead. Don’t drag us!

    • Alan Chan said

      and guess who created the sinners?

      • christine said

        Does light create darkness? No it’s the lack of light that makes darkness. Likewise what isevil but lack of good?

      • christine said

        God created all perfect but because we have free will we have tendencies to choose what is wrong for us and thus to sin. But it is in fact lack of God that causes us to sin. Not because of God

    • Ray W said

      YOU are a sinner. Sin is defined by your religion. I do not recognize your religion or any religion and none of them have power over me. I make choices, I do not commit sins. The church is nothing more than a control mechanism that veils and hides the true message of the Christos, and all of the others that have come before him.

      • not fair said

        And i dont believe jesus give you food and drink. Try dont work and see whether jesus give you money to buy food or not. Every time i go buddhist lodge and i have free food even i dont go to work.so i rather be a buddhist because buffha is more merciful and he doesnt adk for money but love every nody eben if it is an animal. I LOVE BUDDA FOR HIS LOVE TO US IS UNCONDITIONAL AND UNLIKE JESUS ASK FOR OUR HARD EARN MONEY. THIS IS MY OPINION ON RELIGION.

      • christine said

        @Not fair

        I’m sorry Christian s make u feel that way. Really please don’t blame it on Jesus though. He is a nice guy, he loves us all unconditinally . It’s just human people that don’t know how to practice God’s love. I’m sorry if Christian s have ever made u feel angry or hurt, but we are not all like that. Some of us have a relationship with God

    • Wicked Brain said

      No offens, and who created these sins?

    • I"M NO SINNER LIKE YOU, ASSHOLE! said

      LKSin, you may be born A sinner BUT I AM BORN INNOCENT!!! Everyone is born innocent and equal!!!

  3. Bless you, I am happy for you

  4. kong man fuck sun said

    Haha

  5. Ren said

    Typical signs of a cult…

  6. May said

    MLM packaged as Church!

    • DIY said

      Yeah, Ponzi pyramid scheme in the works.

    • JFK said

      sad that church goers were asked to contribute 100’s of millions of dollars… religion should be a source of your strength and not a source of earning millions,…. should be personal not like a marketing campaign… bring you inner peace… not let clerics control you with their interpretation of what religion is. … its high time we learn what religion is… ?!!? some people believe that god is the ultimate savior, some believe he is civilizations greatest sham… i’m happy to respect both viewpoints as long as your life is filled with love, respect and happiness for the people and environment around you and you don’t impose your religious thoughts and processes on me and let me go discover my own as at the end of the day religion is a very personal thing.

    • Mr Oohlala said

      Religion is a “feel-good business” and it is BIG Business in the US….they are so rich and powerful and have the ability to influence the American congress…imagine that happening in Singapore! Most likely it is our ISD… they must have sniffed out something fishy…some conspiracy to de-stablise our country perhaps?! Usually shits like this will lead to more shits being dug out! Our shit-diggers are rally formidable you know!

  7. RealityCheck said

    Interesting read on this website http://www.howcultswork.com/.

    A great degree of similarities in my opinion of what goes on in places of worship these days. No punt intended.

    RealityCheck

  8. Pantatko said

    Dajjal has arrived…

  9. ex-chc said

    Well said and I am sure there are MANY MANY more cases. One thing I want to highlight is how you must be hip and trendy to be in the church or your cell group members will ostracise you. You must talk in their “high class” language. In cell group, everyone was just talking about the latest this, latest that. Buy sun ho cds. I remember fashion was important. You must wear NICE to church (there is even a sermon on that) cause you are representing god. as i was not fashion crazy, i was deeply ostracised.

    With regards to your “chanting”, i would assume is speaking in tongues. That drove many ppl away. I remember very clearly a new member in my cell who was from china was “forced” by the leader to speak in tongues! And she miraculously could “speak” on the day! Leaders are very much the “konghees” of the group. we must treat them with utmost respect and they will pretend to be very knowledgeable of everything and anything! You have to give offering in cell group too! i was from other churches and that had never happeend before! As you are so close to your peers, it was impossible for you not to GIVE! and i always wondered where the money went! the leader was holding the envelope with all the money! she could have done anything to it.

    I left too and immediately felt more peaceful plus my pockets were not dry anymore.

    • meibe said

      yes agree with you. i went to a few churches, chc is very different.

      • sin said

        See the way they chant like 走火入魔, and most of the members are young or underage people who can be easily chanted. I see not many matured people there. Lucky i didnt go there although many friends told me that place.

  10. FanaticD said

    this is a fact. went through the same process and kick the “friend” away from me from doing me harm and evil stuffs
    by the way, the methods used are the same ones that such churches imported from satanic cults. since churches are commercialized now, they used the best way to brainwash their followers into mindless zombies

  11. spotlessleopard said

    tHE sHEPARD NEEDS sheeple….AND churches like New Creation Church and City Harvest Church need alot of SHEEPLE…every sheet is to be MILKED nor claughtered…

    • Ben said

      i beg to differ for new creation church as Ps Prince doesnt force anyone to give tithe, nor do the care group leaders at NCC. no mention of a specific % to be given in the tithe as well. everyone that gives, gives willingly and those that dont give are not ostracized as well.

      • miscmatters said

        I agree some what with Ben, but when I was at New Creation. I saw, heard and witness Ps Prince did entice the congregation to give, by passing envelopes to everyone, with promise that if they sow God will let them reap more, and the more they sow the more they will reap. This was after the tithe collection. To me that was a joke, left and never went back again.

      • Happygal said

        Tithing/offering is up to individual..although I stopped going to CHC but never before I was pressured to give..hence I don’t understand why are there so many calling it pressured to give ?? how to pressured you if you do not want to give…please…!! if you are weak mentally don’t put the fact onto others lah..

  12. A resident said

    I–for one–would love to see this cult shut down and discredited into non-existence as the ridiculous little mortal-worshiping bunch of monkeys it is.

  13. Don't know how to put it said

    I am from another church…I share the writers sentiments too. When I was in my youth, pastor encourages us to give 10% of our allowance. Unknowingly it becomes a peer pressure. Moreover, as a youth, you would want company and feel related. I stayed firm and I didn’t give. My then leader encouraged me to give 10% of my sch allowance in which my Dad gave. People are giving but why are you not giving? You don’t want to rob God do you? Don’t you want blessing from God and stuff….With these, you feel outcast…but why is a church that preach about love, would make people feel outcast when they are in the church? Why is there such discrepancy in treatment? It’s all a mind game. When it’s a mind game, it is very difficult to talk about concrete evidence. Because it is how you feel collectively. Emotion….

    There is always pressure to out perform, to out give to out reach. Pastor uses tactics that housewifes give, students give, hawkers give….psychologically, if you don’t give you are……..some even put up $$ value of each category. I thought left hand shouldn’t let the right hand know based on bible teaching?

    Second point, a pastors’ full time job is to work in the church, so what makes his job so special when he is doing his full time job? The greatest sacrifice is actually us, as a member; having to do full time job + to help the church…while the pastor just fulfill his full time work during normal working hours…unless he perform something extra out of his working hours. So why people look up to pastor and think so highly of them? Teachers on the other hand should deserve more credit.

  14. Maybe this is just another attention seeking saga to spread the knowledge of CHC and Crossover Project to every part of the world.

  15. Sg_Justice said

    I sincerely pray to GOD that if KH and SH are indeed GUILTY, then please punish them under the name of GOD!

  16. annonymus said

    i empathised Pandaren as i was in her shoes too.. though i was not in CHC nor have ever attended CHC before,i do believe there are some other churches which do the same thing.. i believe that christianity is to promote morale values and teach people to be good.. however in this modern society,i see there’s huge competition among churches in singapore by deploying people to various public places such as MRT stations,bus stops, shopping centers,etc to spread christianity.. singapore is a multi-racial and religious country,and i hope the government can step in..

  17. Bernard Deng said

    Cleansing? Oh they will cleansed you of your money.

  18. karynteo said

    I had the same experience n feeling when I attended chc.

  19. Ex money giver said

    Yeah. sadly its most true for churches that i’ve been to, not the traditional ones, but more of those for youths. NC,CHC , HCS, you will be surprised how wealthy these churches are.

  20. Singapuraboi said

    Many years ago one of these CHC cultist approached me. It was a young boy about 17. He was obviously new as there were others nearby observing. Prior to approaching me I saw them nudging him to approach me. This boy made his tentative approach and tried to sell me Jesus as my saviour. Told him I m already a Christian and proceeded to tell me that I have to go to the rift church and follow the right pastors cos others were false prophets. He continued that I insisted on going to my church I would be damned in hell. I was outraged. Told him I was baptised and he proceeded to talk about fire baptism as the only way to get IMO heaven. For a new guy he was very trained and eloquent. Then he proceeded to tell me howich he loved me to want to save my soul. He said the church and the people and CHC can love me more than or as much as my parents. Then he started to try to attack any teenage fears that many of us have suffered. Great psycho warfare. Told him i was not interested and he was persistent not to let me go. Unable to get rid of him, I did the outrageous thing and kissed him on the cheeks in public. He was thrown off and I told him that Paul said to embrace our brothers in Christ whenever we see each other and since he loved me so much, I should kiss him. Ha ha he was so lost for words and u should see his fellow cell group members dumbfounded faces. I told him when I know him better i would kiss him on the lips. My class mate and I decided to walk over with outstretched arms and puckered lips and they all ran off in a hurry. LOL and we never saw them evangelising outside City Hall ever again.

    • A resident said

      Your comment has made my week, good sir.

    • LAMination said

      You have won the internet

    • TT Durian said

      U need to act gay to chase cultist away?!!!

    • To hell they burn said

      I admired your courage and strong psyche. Good skill too to fight these cult. One interesting I observed, they try to target at young people.

    • Sage said

      Well said and well done.

    • Akshara said

      OMG this made me laugh… That was a good way of handling such people

    • farah said

      How can he dsaid other churches are falae prophets when his church is the one?

      • creme puff said

        how can he claim other churches r false prophets? easily. and it is so absurd. when i was doing my A levels, i was approached and approached to attend a christian group’s gathering. i went, just to shut them up. there, they announced i was a new member, and asked me to stand up and introduce myself. i refused.

        at the end of the gathering, i told the person who had been insisting that i go to the meeting that i was furious over what had happened. how dare she try to “convert” me. i was a catholic and that basically put us on the same side. so why on earth was she trying to get me to “switch” to christianity.

        that in fact, the christianity she was trying to force on me was that of a breakaway group that had broken away from an earlier group, which had broken away from catholicism. basically, my religion was Much older than hers, the “source” of her religion. that in fact, her religion was an adulterated version of mine. i also pointed out that she looked pretty stupid trying to convert christians to christianity.

        i was not bothered again.

      • Mr Oohlala said

        I can see how this Christian faith began spreading like out-of-control CANCER TUMOR!

    • TrueSGP said

      Hahaha! Great strategy! True that they try to target young people.
      I ever attended a church on invitation of a not so close friend. I thought why not to know more about other religion. Boy was I wrong.
      The pastor started criticizing other religion and demonizing other beliefs. I was clearly shocked and angry.
      Is this what church has been preaching to the followers? What happened to “Regardless of Race, Language or Religion………..”
      Are any authorities checking on the contents that the church leaders are preaching to the followers?

    • Jadey nekomi kun said

      I seldom see CHC people at city hall, i guess its a good way to get them off your back. Your method made me laughed and thank you very much for posting it here, btw i am a free thinker.

  21. 2930313233 said

    had a classmate from CHC who was a very active cell group leader. openly criticized lifestyle activities, overly critical towards other religions, and was constantly condemning people to hell. turns out, she slept with half the guys in her cg. what a hypocrite…

    • farah said

      Thats the reason i never believe in christianity for many of the christians are not true christians. They like to chant other religion and one time even told me we will go to hell if we dont believe in christianity. Lets see who will be going to hell. Everyday i chant “oh money back me home” and i will become rich. So i better become buddhist and not paying and paying to be a christian.

      • devilishsatan said

        Whenever I see students, uncles or aunties selling flag for charity group, I’ll not hesitate to donate regardless of which charity group or religion, my donation maybe very little like 10 cents or 20 cents but I only have 1 thought in my mind is that my donation can help other needy ppl. Having the right thinking & mindset is all it takes, if u hesitate to donate becos the charity group is not from ur religion then u r very shallow.

    • jStar said

      I am an introvert and frequently got teased/ bullied by my classmates, especially in primary school. And the classmates that made fun of me the most were all Christians/Catholics (all at least they claimed to be) . However, as I grew up, I believed that my understanding of religion evolved and I have made friends with many staunch Christians. To me,people who merely claiming that you are from a religious groups but yet commit immoral acts are no different, if not worse, then people who are non-believers, and we should NOT judge any religious solely based on this few ‘blacksheep’. I choose to believe that, like the criminals who had ‘openly sinned’ in their lives, they would eventually face the ultimate judgement by their respectively God(s)/Buddha upon their passing from this life. I will just chant for their sake ( I practice Buddhism now)

    • Mr Oohlala said

      Once, somebody from a cult approach me outside Paya Lebar MRT station and told me the same thing. He started by asking if I have any religion…I told him I’m an Atheist. He then “Advise” me to convert to Christianity and claims that the Armageddon is nearing and we’ll be cast-off to hell if we don’t convert! Some kind of Scare tactics! What utter RUBBISH! I told him off but being very persistent, he followed me like a shadow all the way to Jurong! That Jerk is a real insult to anyone’s IQ!

  22. Ren said

    Say u luv Natas!!! No, I luv my mum…

  23. wira said

    Go watch the movie “Leap of Faith” which was produced in the 1990s.
    You may learn something from there.

    • Mr Oohlala said

      I think you people can go on Youtube and search for Talks by Dr Richard Dawkins too…very educational and eye-opening! Don’t plunge into any religion before you read widely. I personally think Christianity will be a dying religion in this new world if they continue going around scaring and brainwashing the young people. It only shows they’ve got no substance and nothing to offer for the betterment of the society!

  24. dysfunker said

    If you look at the structure of their “recruitment”, it’s the same as a MLM/Ponzi scheme. Throw in religious elements, and it becomes a cult-like thing going on. I was also approached to attend CHC in my teens. Never went for it again, never regretted. I was from a Christian school by the way, and even though I never became a Christian, I still liked how my school taught the values and lessons of Christianity. Not like some humbugs who threaten you with eternal damnation if you don’t attend their glam church with their posse. I recalled my one and only visit to the old CHC back at Paya Lebar, and I was literally dumbfounded and a little scared really. They don’t behave like how humans should behave. Faith is one thing, but you gotta behave rationally. To me, that’s now how a church service should be like. It should be solemn and spiritual, not loud and ostentatious. My “friend” who brought me there told me it was the Devil that’s making me feel afraid in the prescence of the Holy Father. I was like “Dude! I’m scared of you guys who look like OD-ing with schizophrenia!”

    And they were speaking in “tongues”. I find that the most ridiculous thing ever. The only time I spoke in tongues was when I made out with my gf. A lot of my friends were brainwashed. Needless to say, I don’t really know where they are now, or how they are now.

  25. Muhammad said

    Islam is the way of truth…. No hype, no lies, no cheat.

  26. Neutralite said

    I’m not a CHC member (I’m Catholic) & I’ve been wondering: Why CHC wants its members to give a compulsory tithe (regarding several encounters by others) when the New Testament already stated that ‘Freewill giving’ (2 Corinthians 8:3 -12) is more favoured? – since the story of God accepting the lady’s minute donation instead of other rich guy’s tithe as God loves the ‘cheerful giver’, who donates with an earnest heart.

    And I believe that forcing/threatening people to attend church & worship God is against his divine Will because he wants us to serve him out of Love & Reverance, not Fear of punishments, for he is Love itself! (Hebrews 10:22, 1 John 4:16-18) And even if we don’t attend/believe, they shouldn’t be cold toward us (regarding some nasty encounters others had mentioned) because God wants us to serve one another with Love. That’s his commandment of Love to Love your neighbour as yourself for the Love of GOD! Love all People! (Mark 12:31, Galatians 6:10, Romans 12:14-20). Isn’t it a sin to do against his Love & Charity?

    Remember that God knows and understands every single intention behind our deeds and thoughts (1Chronicles 28:9) He will avenge for those who are persecuted or hurt wrongfully (Romans 12:19, Isaiah 1:24) and will do justice if you committed sins or anything against his commandments (Isaiah 24:21, Job 36:17) Hence, remember to be MINDFUL our own behaviours. By the way regarding the CHC case, I personally believe that if the money is intently used for Gospel preaching, why judge it (For non-CHC Christians)? It’s spreading the Word of God! (2 Thessalonians 3:1) Besides, we are not to judge since we’ll be judged by God. And whether the CHC committee used the money to SINCERELY & EARNESTLY spread the Gospels, we don’t know. Only the Good Lord knows as I’ve also mentioned earlier (Job 9:4).

    But ALWAYS remember “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.” (Matthew 7:21-23). SO, only Almighty Lord God judges whether Pastor KH and his committee (who were allegedly misusing CHC funds for self-interests or personal ambitions) are allowed to enter his Kingdom.

    Summing up, stop criticising one another and pray fervently, especially Christians (including Catholics) as we’re one Body of Christ! :)

    – Lord have mercy, Lord have Grace, Lord Graciously hear us All. Amen.

    • CruEL said

      took the words right out of my mouth! If only ‘christians’ would honestly read the bible properly and not just choose to chop and use what they like to their own advantage. 10% tithes is old testament, when all christians preach old testament ‘don’t need to read’ LOL.

    • drumdem said

      many Likes!

    • Martha said

      Absolutely true!

    • pikachu said

      A pastor should only preach donation when the church really lacks money. To do it when the church is already excessively rich means the pastor/board places money at a tall pedestal. What about 99% of other things that are more important than money?

      In the apocalypse, money will be destroyed by fire and inflation. So why does God and CHC keep insisting on guilting people makes sure they give 10% of their ash-and-cinder-wealth, while ignoring the nonsense his wife is doing, the cultish brainwashing done to youths, and the money grabbing occult impressions they give to pagans?

      • Neutralite said

        I agree that donations are to be freewill and to be used for maintaining the Church & preaching purposes. That’s why one should never worship God with Money as Money is the root of evil (1Timothy 6:10). True enough, many of the current world problems mainly rooted from the temptations of money – cases of corruptions and even society in which some people pursue higher income jobs through ungodly means.
        I also agree when the Lord descends down with his army, money will not be able to make anyone withstand his glory. In my honest two-cents worth opinion, their way of preaching is either wrong itself or heavily misinterpreted by the members.

        Regarding the wife’s career, in my viewpoint is that it’s not entirely disagreeable to pursue her own music career. But she has to take note that she herself holds an IMPORTANT role in CHC to get people know more about Christ (as she is in charge of the Crossover Project for Gospel purposes). So what she does in her own private life MUST reflect what she preaches, like any other Priests, Deacons & Pastors, etc. On the other hand, as for pastor KH, if the allegations are true, it’s definitely against God’s will to cover up the misuse of Church funds to support his wife’s own personal music career because the funds are for Church purposes!

        In Overall, I think they also shouldn’t spend the money on luxurious living or gaining fame (according to reports & others’ experiences). ‘What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?’ (Mark 8:36)
        Instead, they should be humble in living, including teaching their members not to wear, bring or use expensive or branded stuff just to be accepted by the Church. (1Peter 3:3, 1Timothy 2:9) It’s not the right & righteous way of worshiping God. And lastly, their way of ‘calling lost sheep’ to attend Church is much to my disapproval, as I’ve mentioned in my previous post that one should only worship God out of Love & Reverence. People may say only when you fear the Lord then would you submit and revere to him. Yes you have to but you should be fearing his almighty POWER (Luke 12:5) & not ENTIRELY on the punishments (Hebrews 10:22).

  27. Alan Lau said

    Cult~~~
    No church will tell u to bring ur friends ….
    No church will force u to donate tithe

  28. sadsadsad said

    I think i speak for most of us here when i say we lost some good friends to this cult of a church representing god. Its really sad that they become the brainwashed braindead people whol will probably sell everything they own if told to give in the name of god by this so call church. I lost my 2 good friend to this “church of god” and this “pastor of god”. Personally i went there once and left half way and almost fought with the usher who were preventing me from leaving

  29. jack said

    CHC – Con Hee Cons

  30. Hmmm… interesting… yeah I heard of CHC being like that in the past.. sad. But it’s no longer like this. Ever since I started attending, I was never once forced to give.. I’m glad that you are attending another church and that is important. :) I would have been rather turned myself if I were in your shoes too..

  31. Ron said

    I am Catholic but I am not a fanatic supporter of the Vatican or the Church heirarchy. I know they have politics, cover-ups of molest cases and other challenges. But, it is the Church that brought me to God and my faith is unshaken. The Catholic Church never pesters me to donate, to tithe, and no high pressure tactics. Yes, there are appeals for donations for special programs…for the seminary, for a new church, etc. But no high pressure tactics.

    And when I visited Lourdes, I saw the items hanging on the walls of the grotto. Apparently the crippled were suddenly healed and their crutches are hanging there. The church does not loudly advertise its miracles. In fact very few are recognized as miracles.

    My point here is that faith is very much one’s journey with God. It is not about promises to be rich, to be assured we will do well always. It is about perseverance, to suffer if we are called to, to rejoice in our blessings and to care for others. No where is money the centre of the gospel preaching.

  32. 龙的传人 said

    都是一群年少无知的青少年,幸的有我们慈爱的领袖保护!

    • Neutralite said

      God protects, not him. At most, he prays for you. Get that straight, or else it MAY only seem to us and other Christian denomination that you’ve been deceived about a creation of God, who as the powerful ability to render protection to his people :)

  33. CHC = CONNING HOLY CHURCH said

    CHC = CONNING HOLY CHURCH??

  34. Jack said

    Never did I understand why a place of worship became a place for idolizing the pastor or the wife of the pastor. You may even say that a worthy pastor is a messenger of God, but fact is, 1) Pastor is not God, he is just a human being all most of us 2) A pastor “teaches” with the Bible, I have never read it, but I supposed its spread word about God’s teaching?
    Did anyone ever wondered how much of the tithe thing did the pastors contribute? I read about a above comment which says pastor survive and keep the church running by the donations from public, but may I assume the the mentioned pastors worked full time as a pastor and not running any side lines? Since the “hot topic” pastor is leading such a high end life, Lets just hope that he had donated more generously compared to the public and set an example,

  35. meibe said

    i can feel the person who wrote this post. i went to children chruch, and that was like 14 years back when i was 11?
    My friend intro me and other kids to CHC.
    There would be sister or brother will be visiting our area children who attend CHC everyweek, ask us to go to church every saturday, if not on sunday.
    It was really fun in church, the music, the games and the prizes. & also they help those poor children to tutions together & we just need to pay $5, and there were even buses to send us to church and home. Isn’ it good?
    But there were time i believe most of us student will have cca/ extra lesson on saturday.
    So i couldn’t commit as much as i do the last time.
    And those we call brother and sister, keep asking us why we didnt go to church. And i keep repeating myself i got this and that.
    And worst, because they know where we live, for example, if that day my lesson end early, but i was really tired, wanted to rest, they will come up all the way to my house and knock my door, to ask me go church(because my friend went to say out i ended my lesson early), and of course, I went to church unwillingly in the end.
    Because of weeks of not enough of rest, i feel so tired, I told my mum, i don’t like go church, they like keep forcing me, I’m not happy any more.
    So my mum said, is alright, just rest at home on saturday, if i want to go to church then I go, if not we can attend church that is opp our house, or attend church with my relative. No need to travel from west to east.
    One day, they came up my house again, and “force” me to go church, but I already pass the message to my friend , sayingi not going this week, but they still insist want me to go. My mum told them, i not feeling well, need to rest, not joinin them this week, but they keep telling my mum they will pray for me at church ask me to go.-.-
    My mum keep it cool, and tell them to leave, i need to rest.
    Once every weekday, they will come up to my house keep asking the same question,” why never go church?” ” are you coming this week?” ” did you pray””this week must come alright?
    I was afraid of them when they keep doing this! Keep forcing me going to church, i feel so scared and unhappy I cry to my mum said I hate going church.And even hide at home dont dare to go out when I know that day they doing home visit.
    My mum was so angry seeing me like this, told them off how can a church force someone to go to church till this extend? And told then I am not attend to CHC anymore.
    They still come to my house every week to ask me go church, and I will keep hiding at home.. or request my dad to bring the family out to avoid them. And also my this happen to my twins friend who lives the same block, they had been finding them to attend church. The parent were unhappy too.
    And this lasted for a few months… at last they stop coming!
    Oh, they even ask kids to donate they allowance too. hahaha.

    • Neutralite said

      Don’t worry, be firm in your stand! I believe that they forcing you to attend Church is actually them sinning against Christ’s commandment of great Love for others. So, you may like attend other churches (there’re so many others) or pray for them if you’re still a Christian! :)

    • biccherry said

      Just my 2c, if U can afford the time, pls go to the library n borrow a book on world mainstream religions n start reading it at home. Tell those CHC pestiferous (Causing irritation or annoyance) proselytizers that U have embarked on a path of self discovery and that they can join U if they wish BUT that they shouldn’t disturb U otherwise. Discuss with them what U have read at your door step and tell them that if they should wish, they can speak with you one on one, through your gate or over tea at your place (if U are nice) about what U have read in the book on world religions. Tell them that their rock band Church is NOT conducive for your period of self study (too noisy, too parochial for your choice of self study). Tell them that even Jesus was over 30yrs old before he performed any known miracles, U cannot possibly be expected to make an overnight decision without some due consideration.
      Tell them that if they wanted to help U, they could also discuss the book that U are reading- and U can then discuss perspectives.
      See if they can really tahan the book of your choice (they will need to be quite knowledgeable in religion to do this)!

      No need to fear staying at home, glad to hear that they’ve stopped pestering anyhow.

      Just my 2c
      B.C.

  36. GTE said

    The reason so many fanatics inhabit CHC is these practices filter out people with brains.

  37. Pjkkoh said

    Saw it coming …. How come authorities took so long? The amount of monies and size of businesses they owned.. The numbers of teens and even adults lost from their real worlds!

    • Musing said

      They needed concrete evidence before they can pull those cons in…otherwise imagine the congregation wrath if they cannot build a solid case against their version of god’s chosen…

  38. Loner said

    @Singapuraboi

    I had the same situation once……that bugger was rather persistent even though I repeatedly told him that I respect all religions but I had NO intention of joining anyone of them. I admit, if he was a salesman, he might make a lot of money. But I was rushing for time. And he did not give me any slack. So the next best thing I did was to snarl at his face, hoping to catch him off guard. Thankfully, he did. And I quickly took the opportunity to escape and hide among the crowd. Didn’t see him again….or anywhere.

  39. Shah said

    I was approached by them too. Mind you, I’m Muslim, and I clearly stated my stand. They still insisted that I go to CHC to witness the “Truth” and experience “God”.
    Best part? All of them were girls. Wearing skimpy stuff too, at that.
    Sure enough, me and my other buddies just walked off, and they happily moved on to other people. Oh God. Why.

  40. kaypoh said

    NIGHT OF THE LIVING BRAINDEAD !!!!

    He hath unleashed his zombies on us, and they will suck every penny until we put a stop to their damned practices!

  41. sv said

    i would be surprised that most introverts will feel the same way too – if you noticed, most of them are more outgoing youngsters, hoping to belong to somewhere and love to hang out in a group, They just need a sense of belonging, a sense of purpose to fill the void and a place to feel hyper with the rock music etc….

    • sv said

      edit : i mean “I wouldn’t be”

      • Mr Oohlala said

        I strongly agree to your point!

        Once, somebody from a cult approach me outside Paya Lebar MRT station and told me the same thing. He started by asking if I have any religion…I told him I’m an Atheist. He then “Advise” me to convert to Christianity and claims that the Armageddon is nearing and we’ll be cast-off to hell if we don’t convert! Some kind of Scare tactics! What utter RUBBISH! I told him off but being very persistent, he followed me like a shadow all the way to Jurong! That Jerk is a real insult to anyone’s IQ!

        Perhaps he think I am someone who would give in to scare tactics?!

  42. Zep said

    I am the Sinner and you are the Sin……….LOL wahahahahaha…..

  43. Xiao Ming said

    Sumone(Teresa) even mention that CHC follower got minder. True or not?

    http://yawningbread.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/crossing-over-from-gospel-to-vanity/

    • Xiao Ming said

      Teresa said:

      “I myself never joined up with the CHC activities as I felt they were morally wrong. Associating faith with money and glitzy buildings is awful but attractive to impressionable people.

      I knew a former schoolmate who became a devout CHC follower: Ms T. One thing interesting was her “minder” who often accompanied her everywhere: Ms Y. This Ms Y would often watch her behaviour and force her to stop, if she disapproved of Ms T’s actions. Ms Y would watch what she ate, drank, how she interacted with others, what she bought, what she listened to, etc. It’s unknown if Ms T’s job, her personal expenditure, etc. were also scrutinised by Ms Y.

      So Ms Y was like the “minder” who accompanies Katie Holmes, wife of Tom Cruise, currently a Scientology follower.

      Ms T boasted she donated $10,000 of her personal saving. She also claimed to attend functions where attendees were encouraged to purchase exorbitant outfits(sometimes tailored), to meet the dress code. Both of these are unverified claims but there were photos of the functions.”

  44. A sad truth.. said

    A very funny thing.. my sister went to the CHC branch at Jurong West. My family isnt christian but my sister just went there to be christian. my mom allowed her to attend.. after 1 year attending CHC service, they mailed my sister a mail regarding ‘CHC upgrading’ which requires her to pay $50 for it. my secondary school was near CHC jurong west and i recall recently, there wasnt any upgrading is going on and i heard that CHC east branch is using the Singapore Expo as their place for service. therefore they could not have an upgrade at the Singapore Expo, they didnt have any upgrading going on at CHC jurong west, WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO? imagine 30000 followers, $50 each. that would be atleast $1500000 into CHC fund. no upgrading is going up whatsoever. told my sister “where’s the upgrading of CHC?” she got no answer to me and tell me “everything written by the media are all lies”. she couldnt even explain where is the upgrading and still believes that the owner of CHC didnt misuse the church fund.

  45. Sky said

    CHC as a whole, is an excellent example of how a Lifeworld is colonised by Systems, a Jurgen Habermas, German communication theorist.

    According to Habermas, a Lifeworld means: shared common understandings, including values, that develop through face to face contacts over time in various social groups, from families to communities. Examples of a Lifeworld can be cultures, religions or education.

    Systems, in communication theories’ aspect, would be achieving a predetermined outcome using money and/or power, without bothering to reach a common understanding.

    In a nutshell, colonisation of a Lifeworld by Systems, what is supposed to be a democratic discourse, are controlled and influenced by money and/or power.

    Some useful readings can be found in the followings:

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/habermas/

    http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/3210/3210_lectures/lifeworld.html

    http://www.radpsynet.org/journal/vol1-2/Sloan.html

    http://people.ucalgary.ca/~frank/habermas.html

  46. Singaporean said

    They are wolves in sheep clothing lor. They are really a cult but pretend to be religion.

  47. YG said

    Thank your father and mother who gave birth to you.
    Give your 10% donation to your Father and Mother who raise you up.
    Spend your cell group time with your father and mother who sacrificed their social life and freedom for you.

    • JFK said

      sweet thoughts.. also love your near and dear ones.. for all that matters in life is love, respect, care in the environment that we dwell in… religion was supposed to support all those factors that made us rise as individual and brought us peace, however religion has become a control mechanism where many people of different states of hunger for power hold the reigns to these basic things which you can have on your own if you choose to… so make the choice to be good human beings that every religion wanted you to be, but the clerics decided they wanted the control..

      • Mr Oohlala said

        I strongly agree to what both YG and JFK said. On the other hand, I’m really glad the Government have stepped in to investigate!

        Once, somebody from a cult approach me outside Paya Lebar MRT station and told me the same thing. He started by asking if I have any religion…I told him I’m an Atheist. He then “Advise” me to convert to Christianity and claims that the Armageddon is nearing and we’ll be cast-off to hell if we don’t convert! Some kind of Scare tactics! What utter RUBBISH! I told him off but being very persistent, he followed me like a shadow all the way to Jurong! That Jerk is a real insult to anyone’s IQ!

        Religion is a “feel-good business” and it is BIG Business in the US….they are so rich and powerful and have the ability to influence the American congress…imagine that happening in Singapore! Christianity is growing like an out-of-control Cancer tumor. Most likely our ISD must have sniffed out something fishy…some conspiracy to de-stablise our country perhaps?! Usually shits like this will lead to more shits being dug out! Our “shit-diggers” are rally formidable you know!

    • Electromus said

      Although many Christians preach to others (including Atheists) to love & serve God above others, it’s actually 1 of the 10 commandments of God to HONOUR OUR PARENTS.

      So, all Christians must remember to abide to that, obeying God’s commandments.

  48. Kel S said

    http://www.cultwatch.com/HowPastorsGetRich.html

  49. weak justice said

    CHC is for the weak!!! they play with your emotions and put this “holy spirit” character and the gift of “speaking in tongues”gibberish nonsense to make one feel good and the pastor empowers himself to “heal”the weak”…therefore they have the guts to ask for money right after the service as they have mastered to put the congregation that is emotionally weak leaving on a high…its a tight game they play with the music, singing, emotions, holy spirit, speaking in tongues, and lastly – GIVE US YOUR MONEY ploy!!! only weak fools and suckers go back weekly for this stupidity!!!

    • Mr Oohlala said

      I strongly agree to you…

      Once, somebody from a cult approach me outside Paya Lebar MRT station and told me the same thing. He started by asking if I have any religion…I told him I’m an Atheist. He then “Advise” me to convert to Christianity and claims that the Armageddon is nearing and we’ll be cast-off to hell if we don’t convert! Some kind of Scare tactics! What utter RUBBISH! I told him off but being very persistent, he followed me like a shadow all the way to Jurong! That Jerk is a real insult to anyone’s IQ!

      Religion is a “feel-good business” and it is BIG Business in the US….they are so rich and powerful and have the ability to influence the American congress…imagine that happening in Singapore! Christianity is growing like an out-of-control Cancer tumor. Most likely our ISD must have sniffed out something fishy…some conspiracy to de-stablise our country perhaps?! Usually shits like this will lead to more shits being dug out! Our “shit-diggers” are really formidable you know!

  50. Tim said

    Jews don’t recognise the bible while we have to accept Christ to be saved. Why then are the Jews God’s “chosen” people? God seems to be pretty confused here – double standards.

  51. dred said

    It’s not about sin, it is not about church, it is not about religion..
    it is about righteousness..doing the right thing by God, by others and by yourself.
    If you read mathew 25..you will see the sheep there do not know Jesus, but they just did the right thing..see a hungry person, fed them etc
    It is not about church, it is about fellowship..when most of his disciples left Him because they could not accept His hard teaching on eating His flesh and drinking His blood(John6:66), Jesus asked the remaining twelve would they like to go too.( to a jew, and all his early disciples were jews, the teaching of eating his flesh and drinking his blood is blasphemy ..see Leviticus 15 to 17). At the peak of his career as a preacher, Jesus brought out a controversial teaching that drove away all of his disciples except the twelve.He just wanted to fellowship with those who accepted him…all of him, not just his miracles or nice teachings.Regardless of who you ‘follow’..would you want to spend time with that person?
    it is not about religion..it is about relationship.
    Jesus did not come to reveal God, but to reveal God who is Father.Religion reveals God as men who founded them believes…Jesus revealed God, his Father as He knows,
    Jesus never said..” No one may come unto God except through me”…but He said..
    ‘No one may come unto the Father except through me.”
    You want to worship believe and worship God? Get any religion
    But if you want to know the Father who is God, listen to Jesus.
    So, if a man called Jesus Christ of Nazereth is your neighbour, and he was hungry, thirsty and lonely…would you invite him to lunch today, and see if you would like Him to be your friend,and come to know Him, and love Him like a brother.
    Now, that is righteousness, fellowship and relationship.
    Next time you have a drink or a meal, invite Jesus, get to know Him..then decide for yourself.
    lastly, even though Jesus occasionally needed money, He did not build His Church on tithes and offerings..but on Miracles, Signs and Wonders while He preached to good news to the poor.
    “Blessed are the poor , for theirs is the Kingdom of God.”

    • Mr Oohlala said

      All I see in the bible are fairy tales that tries to make you feel good…All you people said is “oh the bible says……and the bible is the work of god” You people are just a bunch of bonkers who lives in a world of your own…made-up by some make-believe stories! STOP shoving your twisted believe down my throat OK! If your religion really teaches good, then perhaps you people should start by respecting other people’s personal space and personal believes instead of resorting to scare tactics. It only piss people off!

      • dred said

        Actually…if i have shared my belief, my apologies…for Jesus never told us to share our faith . just our testimonies.I can understand how I piss people off very well. In the nineties, drug dealers used to threaten me because the power of God was detoxing so many at my business, that I was destroying theirs. A blind man , whose eyes were healed and who failed to die of his kidney failure as his doctors prophesied, was really pissed off with me, for letting him see his ugly face again.Yeah…I have seen the blind see, the lame walk etc, and yeah..it really pisses people off.( doctors especially and relatives waiting for the will)
        And another time, when three guys tried to carjack me, it really pissed them off that three against one with one of them having an iron bar, and I still drove them back to their car.I kept mine.
        Or the time, a karate black belt second dan came into my service, and tried to disrupt the service only to discover that God, loved him so much, that he was frozen to the spot for 20 minutes. When the Lord finally stopped hugging him, he ran out like a scared cat. he came back a week later, and I apologised for scaring him…but he thanked us, and gave his life to Jesus, for he was shown a power greater than karate.I guess he was pissed off because the love of god disrupted his demonstration of karate.
        Another time, a young male came in to cause trouble also…I believe he belonged to one of those religions that likes to bomb churches. We did not know who or what he was, but as the fellowship stood up to sing, he fell face first on the floor, and stayed there for 45 minutes..no broken nose, not even a bruise.(We checked before we left him to sleep on) When he came to, he said he saw a man in white writing a word he did not know. When we gave him a piece of paper, he wrote the word..”Eternity.” I guess he was pissed off also or just pissed, ( as we say, down south) . Many a lame beggar have lost their jobs because of Jesus….imagine how that pisses off their handlers.

      • Electromus said

        Hey Mr Oohlala, I believe Dred is speaking about what he feels about the article regarding Pastor KH & the rest with Christian texts. Although I emphatise your viewpoint and feelings on Christianity in S’pore (because I also have experienced it before), do take note that this forum is visible to all (especially the Christian community). Besides, I believe that there’re certainly other Christians who do not use the same approach as the typical ones you may have mentioned.

        So I hope you would not make any personal comments on Christianity or other religions here. Thank you! :) Peace :)

  52. Bravo! Well done! and now on hindsight…you have confirmation that you have chosen well. For those who ignore their instinct & common-sense they have conveniently settled for mindless & misplaced loyalty.

  53. valen said

    sounds like exactly what i experienced o.O except that i wasnt even a christian to begin with. imagine my horror.

  54. Karen Teo said

    At least they don’t go round looking for lost sheep anymore.

  55. dred said

    Come on, CHC members…you have these people writing about their unpleasant experiences, isn’t time those of you who were blind, lame, deaf, dumb, suffering from leprosy and was even dead, jump right in now, and testify about the GOD times you have had at your fantastice church?? Come on, there are 30000 plus of you..surely, there has been a blind person healed, a lame person, a deaf, a dumb,a leper..surely your senior pastor has raised those pronounced as good as dead from the intensive care units.
    Rise up. CHC members..for the glory of God is waiting to rise up on you..rise and testify of the miracles, and forget the money. Jesus built his ministry on MIRACLES, SIGNS and WONDERS, not money.
    Come, on…testify.

  56. dred said

    Hey..come on, CHC members..where are the testimonies…surely some of you have laid hands on the sick and healed them, drove out demons in Jesus name, for these are the signs that accompany the believers of Jesus…surely some one in your congregation has been healed by your pastor’s direct laying on of hands..come, testify…for Christ’s sake, some guy just said he didn’t even get money to help his sick mother..is the money ‘corban’?

  57. noob said

    everyone is equal…..its just a matter of personal choice…..forcing ppl to church is surely not the right thing to do(not judging anyone here) BTW a christian here(16yr old)(goes other church) abt the $ offering i personally don’t give 10% everytime even though it is written in bible…however i believe this is overwritten by another verse in the bible new testament saying tat to give honestly wif our hearts n giv happily(something like tat)instead of calculating wat to giv n having to force yourself to give unwillingly.

  58. Linda said

    glad that you have found a church that sits well with your heart. Big churches like CHC look down on small traditional churches because they think the number of people you bring to church is a measure of your faith – like oh gosh if you don’t bring people to your church you’re not obeying God!!! What a half-truth.

    The truth is, yes…indeed sharing the good news of salvation is every Christian’s duty. But in the Bible, there is a verse saying it is God who draws men to Him, not men. If it by one’s self-effort that one tries to bring people to church instead of direction to God, things will go terribly wrong. That is what the Holy Spirit is for. Say Person X is very anti-Christian and very disinclined to know anything about God. God through His Holy Spirit will give us the wisdom to know not to preach to that person…whereas say Person Y is depressed and feels empty and in his heart is open to visiting a church…the Holy Spirit wil lead us as such…

    Love would not be forced. although God loves us, He doesn’t force us to love Him. If He wanted to do that, He would just have all of us tied up in chains right now (since He is God, He can do that) and force us to love Him. Even that is a contradiction because a heart cannot be forced to love. ANyway, God didn’t do that. Instead, He came down to earth to live as a poor human and to die by being pinned by nails on the Cross (ouch)…to ultimately come to win our love…even though by right He didn’t have to, since He is God….that is what, love is. That He died for us. That instead of punishment we deserve, there is love and forgiveness and acceptance. And a new beginning…

    We are to set by example what we do…then when people see god in us naturally many would want to come to church to know this wonderful God too. This is how early Christianity grew so fast. Because Christians were behaving like Christians and people were attracted to the Christ in them…nowadays…churches like CHC focus on preaching the gospel yet forgetting the fundamental fact – if you call yourself a Christian yet behave in an un-Christlike manner, i.e. wearing skimpy clothes and being mean and insensitive and insincere, how IN THE WHOLE are they supposed to see God in you? Seek God first, and all will be given to you. To CHC – Making church growth and money and your pastor as idols above God is just disturbing

  59. dred said

    please..it is 8th July..is there no one in CHC who was blind and can now see? Lame and can now walk? Deaf and can now hear? Dumbs and can now speak? Has no one been healed in CHC of terminal cancer from your pastor’s laying on of hands?
    Come on, CHC members…testify. Otherwise how will anyone know that the Christ you reach is Jesus Christ of Nazereth, who said,”I tell you the truth , ANYONE who has faith in me will do the things I have been doing…”(John 14:12)”, and who, when challenged by the disciples of John the baptist, said..”Go and report to John, what you see and hear…The blind see, the lame walk, the deaf hear, the lepers are cleansed, the dead are raised and the gospel is preached to the poor.”
    Now I see one of your members has been released from poverty…great…but what about the rest?
    Come, testify some more. Let the other bloggers read your testimony, that they too might be convicted by the Holy Spirit to believe.33000 members and not a testimony of a miracle?

  60. Truth Seeker said

    Zeitgeist (German pronunciation: [ˈtsaɪtɡaɪst] ) is “the spirit of the times” or “the spirit of the age.” Zeitgeist is the general cultural, intellectual, ethical, spiritual, or political climate within a nation or even specific groups, along with the general ambiance, morals, sociocultural direction, and mood associated with an era.

    The term is a loanword from German Zeit – “time” and Geist – “spirit” (cognate with English “ghost”).

  61. christine said

    I notice alot of hate comments here about Christian s. On behalf of them I would really like to apologize. I know alot of times we fail to act in love and do alot of horrible things. But really we are all human and make mistakes. I understand people push u to gochurch, condemn u, and just basically make u feel like shit. I want to clarify that is not jesus doing it. U know it’s God when u feel comfortable and happy and loved,anything else is probably man’s work.

    There are some Christian s who don’t want to convert u, get Brownie points with their pastors, or are in it for a profit. Some of us who have found Jesus and are just so happy knowing him just want u to be happy too. And I respect that u might find happiness in another way. But for me, the idea of happiness any other way is hard to imagine.

    Anyway I ask that u all can please forgive Christian s, though we don’t deserve it. I hope u will meet some Christian s that will one day show u who God really is by their love and not by shoving something u don’t want in ur face.
    Take care and God bless

    • Esj said

      I am Catholic and I agree that some Christians are forceful and intimidating, threatening others that there is no salvation outside church.

      That’s why I agree that we Christians should be spreading the Good News of Lord Jesus Christ in a more loving and gentle way such that non-believers are able to truly experience the great Love of God given by the Holy Spirit; instead of having bad impressions and doubts of this holy faith. So, let God the Good Shepherd guide and communicate with his sheep, let God the blessed Trinity show his true loving existence in the lives of non-believers & let God the Holy Spirit to touch their hearts!

      Then why should we, as his sheep as well as Man, interfere with his work by our own means (like threatening or berating others – mentioned in some accounts)? Let’s just pray for their conversion.

  62. May all beings be peaceful, happy and free, Except Christians!!! said

    You Christians kept saying things like God loves you…Kingdom of God…Having a personal relationship with God…But where is God? Why must he/she/It be so elusive. How come he/she/It can tolerate so much pain and suffering going on in many parts of the world without doing anything…as if he is a bystander?

    If the Christian God condemn anyone to eternal hell simply because he/she is not a Christian, then I don’t think he/she/It is a merciful God…remember there are many Buddhist, Muslim, Taoist, Hindi…who had done many good deeds…they will ultimately go to hell because they are not Christian!!! Gosh! What a God! Just imagine…a doctor who heals but is not a Christian WILL GO TO HELL!!! A Philantrophist who promote a better world but is not a Christian WILL GO TO HELL!!! If one who doesn’t embrace the Christian faith are devil in disguise, then don’t you think your religion is rather extreme and unforgiving…perhaps evil too? What utter rubbish!?

    And if you care to look up the on definition of the word “Faith”… you’ll notice that there are many different definition for the word. People usually perceive things in a way beneficial to them, for I as an Atheist, would perceive it as…… believing in something blindly without Scientific prove! Cause and effect makes more sense then your religion! You a here because your parents copulated; you are here reading my post because you went to school and therefore understand English…blah blah blah…I can go on and on and on and on but you get my point? Don’t reply and rebut be with another “oh the Bible says…” !

    Throughout the brief history of mankind, there has been an overwhelming records of human sufferings in the name of GOD! So please stop all your rebuttals and take a good look at yourself and your religion…something is seriously wrong somewhere! Don’t agree? Then perhaps you should simply keep quiet and do something positive and beneficial to mankind instead of spending your precious time rebutting me for I’m just a nobody! Prove to the nonbeliever that Christianity is a religion of peace and humanity. Remember cause and effect!

  63. ... said

    i attended one of CHC’s service some years back after several invitation attempts by a friend. i agreed eventually since she specifically said it was an exclusive event for the year. The service was held at JW and OMG it’s huge. It was like watching a concert for some celebrities. The crowd was very spontaneous and obviously lots of young teenagers and foreigners. there were moments pple around me started speaking in tongues while holding each other hands!! That scene scared me off.

    At the end of the session, the pastor (cant rem if it was KH) ask for the new members to step forward and i was pressured to step forward by her.. She even asked me to join in the cell group after the service but i just left immediately before anyone approached me. It was indeed an eye opener for me to have attend such a lively n vibrant service. however, i was not convinced.. i felt more like attending a ‘cult’ service..

  64. Pee Wee said

    I Escaped a Cult : http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=Kc7_032DRWc

    If your watch this video, you will find that these are the troubling traits that CHC had in common.

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