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Caucasian PR asks: Why should second generation PRs serve National Service?

Posted by temasektimes on May 25, 2012

A Caucasian Permanent Resident of Singapore Cherie Ball has written to TODAY Voices asking why second generation PRs are required to serve National Service when they have already contributed ‘significantly’ to Singapore.

Under the present laws, new citizens and first-generation PRs need not serve NS, but their children born in Singapore are required to do so.

Cherie argued that the value of Singapore PR has ‘diminished’ over the years its benefits being ‘watered down’:

“In recent years, benefits given to Singapore PRs have been so watered down that being a PR is not that much different than being a Personal Employment Pass holder — apart from the right to live and work freely in Singapore and some hospital subsidies.”

She went on to ask:

“Why should a second generation PR, who holds citizenship in another country, be required to serve NS to “give back” to Singapore, when they typically belong to a family of PRs who already contribute significantly to the country’s economy?”

A recent survey conducted by the Institute of Policy Studies revealed that the majority of Singaporeans listed National Service as an indicator of social integration by immigrants.

All Singapore born men have to serve compulsory NS for two years followed by many more years of reservist which put them at an disadvantage in the job market compared to foreigners who do not have such liabilities.



65 Responses to “Caucasian PR asks: Why should second generation PRs serve National Service?”

  1. Ling said

    Please LEAVE and FO

  2. Mrs Smith said

    ??? rolls eyes….!!!

  3. spotlessleopard said

    I would rather argue that it is better to give the first Generation PR more privileges and they MUST SERVE NATIONAL SERVICE to qualify for citizenship….

    If they do not serve National Service upon attaining the Age of 18 years old their PR and that of their Parents wil be cancelled and they be sent packing back to their country of Origin.

  4. sweetbean said

    I take it since you have full citizenship privileges elsewhere, you can always avail yourself to them at any time rather than subject yourself to watered down PR privileges here,

  5. Sean said

    It’s the law…

  6. Regime Change said

    These are the our terms and conditions for PRs. Take it or leave it.
    If Cherie Ball cannot accept the terms there are others who will.

    • Mywish said

      Spot on. Tell this Caucasian, “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.”

      • Mike said

        What if the Romans are wrong. The point isn’t “why should children of PRs serve NS” but; should NS exist at all? 100% volunteer armies exist elsewhere, even in small countries. NS 1. wastes your valuable time, 2. gives an advantage to foreigners, 3. is dangerous, in that those not suitable for military service are still forced to engage in such activities, and 4. a method of indoctrination, and has nothing to do with national defence. It’s really just a trick to get you all on the “same page” in terms of thinking. I think you can figure out which Page And what People who came up with this trick. I’m a foreigner, and I love Singapore. I don’t think any of you poor guys should have to go through NS if it isn’t right for you and your life.

  7. David Drucker said

    First generation citizen should do Modified NS and not second generation!

    Singapore need to revise its National Service (NS) policy, as why not the first generation do the NS (modified NS) and let the second generation do it?
    Of course, due to age problem, this NS should be a modified NS.

    My suggestion is that:

    Two categories:
    a. It is better to take in citizenship when foreigner is young or study in primary or secondary here, as it will make them “merge beter” into our society and nation.

    b. If foreigner is over the NS serving age, I suggest they go through a “modified NS”.

    I will not explain more here, as unless government is open mind, it is useless to talk more detail if critical component is not matched. I am willing to share with government detail if they are open in asking first generation to serve modified NS, and this could be done.

    • Not PRC, Not Ang Moh, Not Pinoy, Not SGporean either said

      @David . . . firstly, go learn how to shave your pubic hair. Then, you could come back after 10 years time and give us your wonderful ideas again, which I could assure you it will be very much appreciated.

      Now, go do your homework and you may watch your favorite TeleTubbies Show on TV, after that.

      Generally, there are 3 groups of (so-called) PR here in SG. Let’s called them group 1, group 2 and group 3. Group 1 belongs to those with either real talents, amazing wealth or the pure brainy… (or any combinations! ). PRs from this group usually were enticed to come and stay, hoping that they could further boost SG’s economy akin to massive air intake into a turbo engine.

      Group 2 belongs were foreign workers who are working in SG and applied for PR status on their own accord, in hope to find a better or more job opportunities. Whether they will remain in SG or spring-rocket themselves to come eligible for a US green card, that will remain to be seen.

      The last group belongs to those who were married to a SGporean, thus has to apply to become a PR for convenient sake.

      Mind you, not in every scene, one became a SG PR at his own will, you should be told. Some case-study worth reading below:

      If people like Bill Gates or even the late Mr. Steve Jobs (with all respect to him) decided to come to SG and build their Asia Pacific regional office here? Just like Google or maybe even Facebook in the future. Let me ask you – Do you want to tell him to serve NS first, then talk? You think you have bargain power against genius & ultra rich people like them? Of course you can always tell them this is SG’s LAW. So will these Elites tell you to keep your law to yourself and let it dust itself inside the drawer forever.These Elites will just go to Thailand or Malaysia. Congratulation, because you have just presented your neighbour country with a competitive edge against your tiny SG.

      Example 2, Your sister went studying in Korea and fall in love with Mr. Park. Fyi, Mr. Park is a single dude (a divorcee) with a 10 year old son and they are 100% nice and beautiful people. Mr. park is an Associate Computer Engineer currently working with SAMSUNG in Gangnam, Korea with an average salary of USD5,000 per month. He is so in love with your sister ready to sacrifice his job in Korea at your sister’s request to come to SG. So, do you tell Mr. Park he must serve SG country before he could become PR and marry your sister or to live in SG? Also, please tell him about his son must serve NS in SG, 8 years from now. Mark the calender and countdown. Agree to everything or he could forget marrying your sister and should dump her now? (very much like those epic Korean drama indeed) And you can guessed the teary final ending always, can’t you?

      Serve NS in SG? Better think again, it can’t be force upon, not in every situation. For you narrow minded people, this applies the same in ANY country not just SG!! Please leave your tortoise shell behind and go travel outside SG. Do you know why we are given the non-employment claims in EUR? So we can travel and see the world rather then sit in a kopitiam bitching our neighbours and cheezing our government off when we are jobless.

  8. Sean said

    so what’s her silly point? if it’s true that there aren’t any benefits to being PR, then stay as EP holder & don’t be PR! bottom-line, if you choose to be PR then don’t bitch about it!

    • Not PRC, Not Ang Moh, Not Pinoy, Not SGporean either said

      Not everyone chosed to become a PR!! Some PRs were given cheaply (no ping-pong about it) and some were forced upon. Now who is the one bitching?

  9. Ad said

    Good example of someone who wants to have her cake and eat it as well!

  10. seah said

    if u like to stay here do as sporean do or else go back to where u are from.why are u so special .four hands?”or four legs

  11. Michael said

    Probably her son is a wimp and cannot make it to be a man Singapore. What’s the big deal with your son to hold a real gun? Scared!!!!!

  12. Cop_IT said

    Don’t Serve, then Fxxk Off……

  13. Wicked Brain said

    Then why are they still holding on our PRs when they don’t intend to be our citizen in the future?

  14. what kind of ‘SIGNIFICANCE’ contribution u have done?u mean Singaporean do nothing, sacrifice nothing?u want to live in Singapore, as a first generation, Singapore already given u BIG Discount for not asking you /hubby to serve NS…n now yr son the 2nd generation needs to serve NS u made so much noise?why not get yr son out of Singapore PR system n ask him live in that country he doesn’t have to serve NS?this will solve yr problem!~ i hope u like my solution for u.

  15. And since cherie ball u claimt that the benefits of a PR is like a EP holder…so why insist to be a PR?get yr son be a EP holder then…why want to contribute SO SIGNIFICANTLY for?jus pack up n roll back to yr origin since u are so unwilling to abide to the singapore rulings.sighs

  16. system policy said

    System policy and not one by one policy:

    Why give so many PR passes that many of them do not want to be citizen?

    A policy should be set in a system, looking into total picture and not piece by piece.
    Singapore should come out a system on foreigner policies, integrate citizenship status, PR status, employment pass status etc….into a system policy.

  17. Jack said

    No, you don’t need to, it is your choice

  18. pay said

    Its called protecting our sovereignty. Abide by it or simply, ship out.

  19. SalesExec said

    Wa Piang! You not willing to contribute your time by serving the NS, I wonder what have you contributed significantly to Singapore.

  20. if not willing to serve, then go home please.

  21. Carmen said

    One of those absurd requests I will never understand.

    Why should being a PR entail extra benefits, when there aren’t any for citizens? Yes, we do need more “highly skilled workers” here. But unless the govt intends to make Singapore the country of expats, the benefits a PR receives should not exceed that of a citizen. As it is, many expats here already have their rent covered by their companies and locals do not. Besides, do local Singaporeans not contribute to the economy?

    You are a PR of this country because you like it here. You want to live here, work here, and perhaps you like the education standard here. To be honest, no one is forcing you to stay, or even for your child to remain a PR. If he is above 18 and thus liable for NS, I am sure he can very comfortably live by himself in your home land. Don’t complain about something when it is a choice you can make. I’m sure many Singaporeans here are even more unhappy to see PRs snatch away high profile jobs. Can we help it – no. So quit complaining and thank god you have your job here.

  22. Mikey said

    Then why should 3rd, 4th or 5th and so forth do it?

    All the previous generations also contributed what.

    Take your Ball and go home if you don’t want to play by our rules.

  23. Andrew said

    Absolutely terrible reporting by Temasek Times. Why is Cherie Ball’s race relevant here? Even if it was, how does Temasek Times know she is a “Caucasian.” Temasek Times is unncessarily bringing race into the discussion.

    • Don Davis said

      As a Caucasian who really loves Singapore, I am saddened by the use of the word here as if it were a dirty name. I try not to classify people by race any more. It is not necessary. What an individual does is up to them, it does not mean they represent an entire race of people. Please try to understand that.

      • Patrick said

        It is the many unpopular government policies here that has riled the people. The people need an outlet to vent.

        Singaporeans are not against Caucasians, or any race. A question like that from Cherie presses the HOT button of many Singaporean.

        Please try to understand that.

      • Dogmeat said

        The whole point is to thrash and burn, plunder and pillage, regardless of race, gender or religion, as long as it is not Singaporean.

      • Andrew said

        I don’t doubt that some people need an outlet to vent. And I totally agree that government policies are ultimately at issue. But when Temasek Times injects race into the discussion unnecessarily, its credibility is damaged. In fact, Cherie is not even a Causasian.

    • xinmpg said

      A quick Google of “Cherie Ball” Singapore shows her LinkedIn profile. She went to school in the Philippines. Are we sure she’s caucasian? Where is the source link?

  24. Mark said

    Give up your PR and return to where you are from. Perhaps you will leave a space for a Singaporean.

  25. I am a Singaporean who lived abroad. I have always abided the laws of the country I lived in. If you live in your country of choice, then do as they do. You always have the choice of leaving. When I was home last year, the government ask me to denounce my citizenship. What for? So they can give 2 more million PR’s to foreigners. Give me a break. Not going to happen.

  26. Anon said

    Welcome to Singapore!

    So what if you are a Caucasian? Everyone, every PR have to serve and that is it. Don’t ask so much, just do. Probably in another 10 to 20 years, i forsee you guys begging us to let you serve NS. Looking what what europe is going through currently..

    Not happy? Just go elsewhere.

  27. carl said

    then don’t be PR la… want to be PR then pay the price or serving NS… if not then FO…

  28. kelvin said

    If you’re living in Singapore with crime rates much much lower than wherever the hell you FT’s come from, that in itself is a privilege. Just because you pay money doesn’t ever cover back for that, and it doesn’t mean you can get out of NS – it doesn’t work that way. Don’t like it? Go back.

  29. voice of the people said

    as you as you didnt serve ns.. you contribute nothing. get out if you not happy with singapore..

  30. Dex said

    I can help you pack your bags FOC

  31. Laura said

    Seems to be a Pinoy married to Caucasian. Go check F/B.

  32. theminoritydude said


  33. pussywagon said


  34. uneducated singaporean said

    well done, lower personal taxes good for you but NS no good? Go back to your own country!!! We Singaporean men serve 2/2.5 years full time NS and still have reservist, want to kpkb then please lah, don’t stay.

  35. Someone said

    Not happy with the rules? Go find another place to stay. You either Serve or F O. =D

  36. LB said

    Serve or Leave. . . . .you’re choice. . . .that was the law when you arrived. . . . .that is the law now !!

  37. native said

    *tsk* no matter what, there will always be someone who never learn the mistakes made by others and NO miss Cherie, others before had gone through NS, so should your precious darling

  38. A Singaporean Abroad said

    I am surprised that Cherie has not even checked up on all the rules & regulations of Singapore before blindly accepting Singapore PR. If she is not happy, there’s always such a thing as a one way ticket home.

  39. Yun said

    I don’t agree with e system as well , It’s safe for the “NoN locals ” to know our military system ?OMG how if e country send in most of the spy , mole ….. Oh …. Singapore ….

    • ANGRY Bird said

      @yun, you have a point. But I am sure the SAF knows that. They can be deployed to SCDF or Police Force. Agree, 2nd generation PR must serve NS!

  40. joker said

    you have a choice ma – stay and follow law or leave – simple – you so smart people still need ro ask meh – keep me thinking – in the 1st place are you the real talent that sg need?

  41. Poty said

    what logic is that?
    I’m a 2nd generation PR from Taiwan, came here since Year 2000, 6 years old, and grew up here.
    I think it is necessary to serve the NS in order to contribute back/protect the country/society.
    Although I’ve been paying more for education expenses(no edu-save, PSEA, more fees, etc..), and only rents apartment as the government doesn’t subsidy much in buying of HDB, but I think that’s what differentiate the PRs and local citizens.
    And ya, I’m enlisting in Nov.
    Singapore is my home as I grew up here and most of my memories are established here.

  42. Chips said

    U enjoy peace and stability at the expense of our nation defence and our NS boys and men. If u dun serve NS, dun count on us to defend u if anything happens, not that I think u will stay anyway. Ungrateful brats.

  43. Hairul said

    Hi all the lady is from The Philippines married to a Caucasian .
    Please Kindly take a look and refrain from talking back with a wrong subject.

  44. Bai Hu said

    Hello Ms Cherie. There is another option for u in Singapore if u dun wanna abide by the law for 2nd generation NS – that is the freedom to leave SG! Nobody is pointing a gun at your head to force u to stay here, there are plenty of foreigners queuing up for SG PRship. Go f**k off back to your motherland.

  45. yr choice said

    Singapore gives economic refugess like u a right to live in our country
    If u think u have been shortchanged,

    there is another right u have, the right to leave.

  46. Sad Sad said

    True. Go home then…

  47. 3rd gen sg said

    if you ain’t happy with the idea of doing national service then u can GTFO either that or u can marry some old faggot and be politician and SOMEday… SOMEday… u might be able to influence the famiLEE to stop all the bullcrap.
    once again.. WELCOME TO SINGAPORE~

  48. SK said

    I see so many ppl (probably Citizens) saying “FO” if you dont want to do NS but only enjoy the benefits….Does these sort of comments create harmony among the different sectors of people living in this country ? Lets learn to respect each other…Just because one has asked such a question, saying “FO” will solve the problem or what ? Every one does understand the rules and laws of a country and thrives to follow it…and its also obvious that people have different views and express their views….What if a citizen asks same question or comment about any other law of this country ? Will you say “FO” to him/her as well ? If you say this to every one who expresses their views about the laws of the land, what would happen ? Or, what is expected, just people who can blindly follow the rules and laws and does not express their views are only expected to be in this country or what ? If so, what is democracy then ? Im not here to support people evading the laws but only to support people expressing their views…

    Im a SPR (first gen) and my kid is also a PR (second gen) and I have the opinion that doing NS is no harm and helps to build discipline and shape up character as well and in the longer span of life, 2 years is too short…

    Having said that, I want to highlight 3 points here:
    1. For education/Schooling, SCs and PRs are not treated the same way. There is partiality / preference given to SCs in all the top schools of the country. So, this inadvertently puts a generation of PRs at a disadvantage.
    2. For voting rights, SCs and PRs are not treated the same way. There is no voting rights for PRs.
    3. For Shelter, PRs are not eligible for First hand new units/Exec condos.

    While education is primary and voting is a sovereign right and shelter is basic essential and on all these counts, the PRs are not on par with SCs, why should NS be compulsory for second gen PRs and on par with SCs ?

  49. Not PRC, Not Ang Moh, Not Pinoy, Not SGporean either said

    Those people who replied with mostly “FO” , i hope they do not represent SG at large. These people lack the intelligent to argue reasonably and provide sound explanation in order to differ. For all they know, profanity highlights their stirred emotion and much disgusted response. Shallow, very shallow and tiny brains. Probably just kids. Do not think this is SG in the larger context.

    In contrary, a mature and simple explaination or a professional input would be sufficient for a reply, and answers Cherie Ball’s doubt. Why so worked up over such small inquiry? Not even a poisonous snake spits venom unnecessarily or all the item.

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