A Christian speaks out against the defensive behavior of Kong Hee and City Harvest Church
Posted by temasektimes on July 2, 2012
On the recent CHC saga, I would like to offer my humble two cents worth, as a Christian – not to judge the people involved in the saga – but to correct any erroneous views about Christianity to the public that may have arose through this saga, for the sake of the God I worship.
Firstly, I was surprised that people found this saga surprising. CHC has been known in Christian circles as being a prosperity sideline church for many years now. I know of several people who have dropped out of CHC for that reasons. They went there to seek Jesus but instead received a different gospel from the one they know. Having visited the church a couple of times, I was uncomfortable with the fact that they kept emphasizing giving money.
Tithing to God is definitely important, but what they claim – tithe, and you will get much more financial blessings back in return – is an erroneous way to appeal to the lustful greed in people’s hearts (sort of like gambling and 4D), but not at all biblical. They also constantly back this strange philosophy with many testimonies for people who have prospered financially after giving to the church. The Bible never teaches getting more money as the motivation of tithing. The Bible does say that we will be blessed if we give, but we give to help God’s work, not to expect money in return. Also, the blessings in return may not necessarily be monentary. In China, there are churches where poor believers still tithe every cent from their pocket to fund their church missionaries (who truly need and money and literally risk life limb and jail to preach the gospel). However, they do so, rejoicing in the fact that God’s work can continue, not that they expect to get back money in return!
Secondly, I was surprised at the defensive behaviour of City Harvest members. I thought this issue was about the church’s pastor, and not the church? Initially when the news about Pastor Kong Hee being arrested broke out, I had never felt the church’s name was defamed in any way – neither do I think the public feels this way. The public seems to know the church is the victim not fellow consipirators. However, the overboard reactionary behaviour of CHC members, and not their pastor’s charges, now has made the public eye the church in a disapproving manner. We are not told to put our faith in men, who are untrustworthy, but in God.
The sad thing is that I see the CHC members blindly continuing to profess their faith in Pastor Kong Hee rather than professing their faith in a just God who would let justice, whatever the outcome be, prevail. God taught us to be respectful and submit to authorities because their power is given by God above. Whatever happens, good or bad, is in God’s Will as well. As a Christian, I feel it is disgraceful to see CHC members pushing and shoving and saying nasty things to reporters outside the court to protect their beloved ‘pastor’. What does this convey to the non Christian world, who see us as messengers of God? What impression of the God we profess to worship does it convey to them? Why are they sacrificing their testimony of God to the world, for the sake of a mere man? What lengths would they go to protect their idol?
Christians throughout the ages have been no strangers to going to court and getting into trouble with the law. The difference is that such things normally happen because the authorities has issues with them preaching the gospel. However, to be charged by the law for mishandling God’s money, that is altogether a different kind of ‘persecution’. It is just and honourable for us Christians to be persecuted for righteousness and for God’s sake…but to be persecuted for our own foolishness and sinful behaviour, is just plain shameful. For the former, God is on our side; for the latter, it is His judgment upon a professed ‘Christian’ who continues to disobey him and indulge in sinful behaviour.
The saddest thing I have felt throughout this whole saga is that I have yet to see an apology from Pastor Kong Hee to God and his church members for commiting a wrong. And also that I have yet to see an apology from CHC members to the non-Christian public observers for their ridiculous ruckus outside the court (as well as writing letters alleging their church has been defamed by the authorities??) giving such a flawed testimony of God to the non Christian public observers. The crux of Christianity is to acknowlege we are utterly depraved, sinful and flawed, and calls for true repentance. Christianity without true repentance and confessing of sins is meaningless. We should be unashamed of acknowleging our wrongdoings because doing so will set us free.
According to 1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” What is so hard about apologizing? What is this wretched pride (perhaps stemmed from our face-saving culture?) that Pastor Kong Hee is protecting? That his congregation is protecting for him? Is this pride more important than God? Jesus forsake his pride and died shamefully on the Cross. Because of that He was resurrected and given authority over all men, and millions of Christians honour and revere him today and praise Him with our lips. Can’t Pastor Kong Hee and his church do the same?
If not, let humble me apologize to the public on their behalf. I am sorry for the negative impressions Christians in the media have been giving you recently. I know we Christians normally try to convince you to come to church and to show you that God is living inside of us (of that I respectfully will not apologize for as that is what God calls us to know). But sometimes you see our actions going contrary to what we try to show, and for that I apologize. I would like you to know, that true Christians are not necessarily those who say they are Christians with their lips, nor those who do a lot of volunteer and charity work.
True Christians are those who mean what they say, who obey what Jesus says, who worship Him in Spirit and in truth. We Christians may say a million theological words about Christianity to you that you probably think is gibberish, but I would like you to know – indeed – actions speak louder than words. What we do is more important that what we say to you. If ever our actions contradict what we say – if we do not practise what we preach – you are right to label us as hypocrites.
MICHELLE TAN
*The above article was contributed to us for publication by the writer. We thank her for taking the effort to write such a well-thought article.
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Related articles:
Concerned parents attend City Harvest Church with their children
Kong Hee receives standing ovation from CHC members
Kong Hee speaks out against charges: I maintain my integrity
‘Celebrity culture’ at CHC does not fit into biblical principles
PAP MP Sam Tan: It is ‘understandable’ for CHC to support its leaders
City Harvest Church issues warning to media
My unpleasant experience at City Harvest Church
City Harvest Church stands by Pastor Kong Hee
Pastor Lawrence Khong urges fellow pastors to pray for Kong Hee
Kong Hee’s family upgraded from 5-room HDB flat to Sentosa Cove Penthouse
An Analysis into the wealth of City Harvest Church
Defiant Kohg Hee places his faith in God
Ex-CHC member: I donated more than $10,000 to the church in the last five years
Overwhelming support for Pastor Kong Hee by CHC members
Kong Hee charged for misuse of funds at City Harvest Church
23 million dollars of CHC funds used to finance Ho Yeow San’s music career
THE TEMASEK TIMES 
jack said
Thank you fit sharing different views
jacque lee said
He is expressing the view similiar to the great majority of Christians in Singapore unlike the cult grouping CHC. The whole CHC saga is a disgrace to multi religions Singapore. They do not represent Christian in Singapore. The 20.000 to 30.000 members should be dwindling as the trial develop and punishments meted out. On behave of christian I apologise to non believers.
seah said
thanks you
My Heart Aches Reading This Article said
Michelle Tan (or, Patricia Tan), I have read all the things you have said here, to the end. Dare you tell all of us which church are you from?
correct me if im wrong said
I would like to offer my humble two cents worth (To Church) as a christian. Meaning its not about the money on how much we give but how much our hearts treasure God. Whether is PS kong ask us to give or not, Its none of your business!! Because we know that when we give, it offer to the Lord not Ps Kong! “But what they claim – tithe, and you will get much more financial blessings back in return” – When we sow a apple seed, do we reap A apple? ofcos a tree of apples right? (many apples) logic?? think for yourself. (alot of explaination needed) “The Bible does say that we will be blessed if we give, but we give to help God’s work” YES! But make sure your giving is base on your hearts. Dun be so humble to give two cent. if you want to prove to other ppl* The Sad thing is that I see the CHC members blindly continuing to profess their faith in Pastor Kong Hee rather than professing their faith in a just God – ARE YOU SURE YOU ARE NOT JUDGING US???!! you say we were blind? my advice, before you can conclude us, please let God know that do you have the right to even correct or comment about us. Please~ whoever you are out there!! dun let me or us catch you doing wrong things!! what you sow today you will surely reap in harvest!!
correct me if im wrong said
im refering to the writter. sorrry
Staying Clear Minded said
Correct me if I am wrong, pardon me but you sure sound like gangster here with “don’t let me catch you” attitude. Threaten your fellow sister in Christ just because you have differing views? Churches are territories nor brands. And God do not live in one man made building. Where is the love of God in you??
My Heart Aches Reading This Article said
Michelle Tan (or, Patricia Tan), I have read all the things you have said here, to the end. Dare you tell all of us which church are you from?
George said
I totally agree with the writer. What I read from the media of the chc supporters is contempt of court. The best the followers can do is pray I’m silence.
spotlessleopard said
We really want the CHC members to behave with respect towards non christians….and as Taxpayers we are concerned that the Government allows CHC tax free status whilst their Pastor and wife live like King and Queen…while ostensibly preaching the Word of a Christian God…..We want CHC to be a taxable Organisation in view of the luxurious life style of Pastor Kong and his Wife….
the legitimate taxpayers are actually “subsidising” the King and Queen of CHC…We want that stopped.
Candice said
An alternative point of view:
Aren’t christians supposed to love one another instead of creating such hatred and judging one another. I hate to admit, but in this article, the writer is indeed judging CHC members. Why are people saying that CHC is a cult and that CHC members are disgrace to the christianity committee. Don’t you think it’s too judgemental and unfair to the entire CHC community that you’re judging everyone in CHC just because of a few who made mistake? Also, what is shown on media may not have been the exact truth, isn’t it obvious that they’re trying to show the ugly side of the church and I’m pretty sure they were rude to the pastor and church members as well, it’s just that it wasn’t shown on the tv. Why are people saying that CHC members are worshipping pastors instead of God when they themselves are not CHC members?
I just find it weird that within the christian community, people are arguing and making noises about CHC. I still choose to love and pray.
John said
Thank you for choosing to Love and Pray. So stop comment any further, Just Worship God, Love God and Pray to God.
Jasman said
Agree to what Candice has said. I’m not a member of CHC but i think as a family of God we need to keep them in prayer. We should not prejudge or make baseless assumptions. The case is before the courts and we must trust God that His justice will prevail. All we can do is to entrust the matter to our Sovereign Lord.
Khoo Kheng-Hor said
“You can only rely on GOD, not on men.” (Psalm 118:8)
sean said
amen
Jiale said
Amen
RealityCheck said
This writer obviously knows true faith not blind faith. We all have spiritual dependencies and will look upon the wisdom of God, not of Man. Prosperity Gospels have no relation to the true teachings of God. Living well in the scriptures means living with God and not about living using God’s name to make a fortune.
As we all will eventually embark on our journey to face judgement from God, how does giving worldly currencies equates to getting you “godly credits”? I wonder…..
RealityCheck
Seriously said
Why dont you go read the Bible
(Mal. 3:10–12) Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need
Jardel said
Thank you. All religions taught humans to be good and only humans ourselves chose to utilize it as means to satisfy personal gains. I doubt those who support CHC will realise this. It’s ok. In this world, you have smart villains who con idiots and idiots who support villains.
Grace Speaks said
Well said.
J J Samuel said
A fine, extremely clear-headed article. I agree completely. Thank you Michelle!
Dan said
According to 1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”
I have met many who practices, Sinful weekdays and wait for Purifying Sunday. And this vicious cycle just continue with the degree of sinful acts getting worse by the week
hachoo said
Thank you Michelle for writing this comment.
Any man or woman whom preaches and practises otherwise in the name of GOD is no messenger of GOD neither is he/she GODSEND.
WHile the court verdict is not out as yet, the common man in the street already knows and the someone up there already know as well.
The defiance displayed by KH and gang is seek to calm the CHC followers and nothing else.
CPIB will not spend all those man hours to dig up evidences and press charges for nothing. THey are so meticulous that they can even uncover the exact time (down to the minutes) and place where the act took place as shown in the recent scandals involving the two top civil servants.
The question remain what punishments will KH and his gang gets, from the court of law or from GOD !!!
Like I said before, I pray for all Christains at large to condem this pereived act and starts to re-build the good name of Chistianity within the community.
For the CHC followers, I say look beyond KH and gang and proceed to find the truth in the name of GOD, for GOD SAKE !!!
Edmund ching said
Agreed, CPIB must have all the evidence available before bringing charges against CHC.CPIB must come out victorious in its prosecution,otherwise heads will roll.Govt is very smart in nailing people down.There must be 100% sure b4 they take action.
boombastic said
Dudes..it’s Commercial affairs dept, not cpib… Quite obvious some people haven’t even read a single article but are already so quick to type out long, judgemental comments
PC said
Well said HaChoo. KH and gang chose to cheat again and again over the many years. God in all His patience has finally removed His hands of grace from them. For it is written, “Do not put the Lord your God to the test”. Matt 4:7.
For CHC members,
“There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven ….a time to keep and a time to throw away…a time to heal ….” Ecclesiastes 3. As a Christian, I sincerely pray that you continue to grow in faith in GOD.
The BigPoPpa JoN said
Amen to that. Nuff said. Love the article.
Minimalist said
Sensible article indeed !!!
This article should be published in MSM and hopefully help to enlighten those “brain-washed” members !!! This may trigger their mind again why they chose Christianity in the first place…
jaslyn said
agreed. but in fact, it’s not a matter why ‘they chose Christianity’. more often for Christians, it’s the realisation that God has been in their lives all along and has done great things they don’t deserve. this notion is too hard to resist. hopefully ppl will awaken and realise that God is just and justice will be done eventually, instead of only having blind faith and worshipping flawed humans 🙂
Pete said
Kudo to the writer of this document. Indeed very well define and well mention on the truth faith believer and those who blindly idolise their pastor. With all due respect to pastor hong kee for his the positive things he had done for Christ. But he also tinted the name of Christ for being charge in court for mis handling those money that is not lawfully belong to him.
Shiroi Ryuu said
Although I’m not a Christian but I would like to say;
Dear Michelle, you had touch on the topic real well. As a observer to this issue and the whole of CHC Saga, i truly understands the differences between a true Christian and a masked Christian.
In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
not a singaporean christian said
amen, God bless you
roman catholic said
God bless you Shiroi.
Ginger said
That’s exactly what God is doing now … delivering His justice to those who abuse His name and confusing others. God is speaking out in His own way to help faithful followers back to His path.
Yayrhah said
It is obvious that City Harvest has become a cult and not a church.
What they worship is money $$$$.
Did anyone check how in the world did Kong Hee “obtain” so much money and stay in a Penthouse at Sentosa cove?
龙的传人 said
也许是上帝恩赐，因他无限的奉献敎会所以上帝感动恩赐!
LOL:D said
Perhaps not. Lets not be so quick to judge the entire church itself 🙂
As Christians, In the end it matters not whether you have been judged by men. He who is blameless will have the last say.
Mr Oohlala said
I give my applause to the writer for this letter. On the other hand, I’m really glad the Government have stepped in to investigate!
Once, about 17 years ago, somebody from a cult approach me outside Paya Lebar MRT station and told me the same thing. He started by asking if I have any religion…I told him I’m an Atheist. He then “Advise” me to convert to Christianity and claims that the Armageddon is nearing and we’ll be cast-off to hell if we don’t convert! (I’m not bothered anyway so I don’t see why he should be!) Some kind of Scare tactics! What utter RUBBISH! I told him off but being very persistent, he followed me like a shadow all the way to Jurong! That Jerk is a real insult to anyone’s IQ! Or maybe he had some quotas to meet?! Now I have kids of my own, i’m worried how such issue might effect our family’s cohesiveness should such incident happens to my son if he buy into what was being preached to him?!
Religion is a “feel-good business” and it is BIG Business in the US….these Christian organizations are so rich and powerful and influential that they have the ability to influence the American congress and its policy making process …imagine that happening in Singapore! Christianity in some way, is like a Cancer tumor growing out-of-control. Most likely our ISD must have sniffed out something fishy…some conspiracy to de-stablise our country perhaps?! Usually shits like this will lead to more shits being dug out! Our “shit-diggers” are rally formidable you know! This issues goes to show that a big portion of the general public is easily manipulated and fall preys to individuals or organizations with ulterior motives! If you are too high-profile or have too much influence over a significant numbers of the general public, you are bound to be scrutinized at some point of time!
Upon writing my last paragraph, I suddenly realized how vulnerable we are as a small nation! Any organization of such scale MUST BE KEPT IN CHECK!
Present and Now is the truth said
nicely wrote! thank you
Atticus said
Wow .. so much for avoiding judging others, making pre-judgement, etc, as a CHRISTIAN. I am not from CHC, but yet I can see the hypocritical nature of “Christians” here that while spewing verses from the Bible, condemn a group of people even BEFORE the court of law does it. There are always 2-side of every story. Have you heard their story yet, before you make your judgement. Then again, are you even suppose to judge and condemn. Leave it to God to judge – just do our duties as Christian, and PRAY.
Gobsmacked said
I pray for JUSTICE. I pray for the TRUTH. I pray for the wrongdoers to be JAILED.
IronMan said
Amen
60+ said
I pray for all CHC members to do community service for the rest of their lives.
anon said
Because these Christians are human and not God, Atticus. They are simply expressing what other non-CHC Christians are feeling at the moment.
The greatest injustice would be for us to be aware of injustice, but not do anything about it.
Since you have used the name “Atticus”, I would like to remind you that in the book, Tom Robinson is unjustly sentenced because the jury, due to their biases, ignores the glaring facts and inconsistent statements that Atticus points out to them. Similarly, in this case, turning a blind eye to the apparent facts and figures that the CoC’s investigations have unearthed will result in an unjust verdict.
It is always difficult for the prosecution to fight for those who do not wish to pursue a particular case. But for every CHC member who professes undying support for Kong Hee and The Crossover Project, there is another who is skeptical and who wants proper accountability on the church’s expenditure.
jelimon said
Atticus, there is a difference between judging and rebuking in love. If you see you brother sin and not say a word, are you being your brother’s keeper as the Bible exhorts us to? Are we also not to keep one another accountable for our actions (James 5:19-20)?
The writer has stated plain facts, and made her comments based on these facts. She spoke against the actions, not the character of the CHC supporters. When we judge a person, I assume that we leave no room for forgiveness but only condemnation and shame. When a Christian recognizes a wrongdoing amongst his/her fellow believers, the only response is to address the wrong-doing, encourage repentance and forgive, NOT deny or sweep it under the carpet.
Ron said
Amen, Praise the Lord.
This scandal has caused me to search for websites that exposed the wrong-doings of TV evangelists and pastors (mainly American churches) and it was shocking to learn of the lies, falsehoods and profit-oriented preachings. Many comments were written by church followers who left in disgust and revealed what they saw and heard.
Worse still were the glorious high lives (mansions, high society spending) and the immoral actions some so-called successful TV pastors indulged in. They even pronounced curses on those who disobeyed God and said people may meet grave misfortunes for not obeying God. Imagine how such threats can have on young impressionable minds?
While the government takes firm action on any use of the Church to push a political agenda, there has been no control over such deceitful practices to raise enormous sums with the promise that God (not the pastors) will reward them a 100 fold. Is this not fraud?
A code of practice is needed. And there must be control over fund-raising and use of funds.
fox said
Well said.
dave said
Well said Micelle! This should be published and made viral!
dave said
Government and authorities should know that when they are working or dealing with Christians, they know the members are following Christ’s commandment to obey the authorities and govt.for all matters than are rightly handled by the authorities. By this, we are different from the world, not as rebels but as believers.
ginger said
I came across this interesting perspective by someone called Steve Locks: “Why I left Christianity.”
https://sites.google.com/site/leavingxtianity/why
Pantatko said
Bible changed many many times now different church teach different thing…how like that???cialat ah
praisevariants said
Many thanks to the contributor for this. Can I ask Christians who wish to make a stand against Sun Ho’s music career being called a ” Christian” mission work to support this page https://www.facebook.com/sunhomusicisnotchristian The idea is not to criticise or condemn individuals but to stand up against misrepresentations of the Christian faith. Cheers!
kaypoh said
Just like a lot of Nigerians, promising billions of $$$….but ask for money first. Gahmen oredi tells us wat to do with our money, all stuck in CPF, we dun need another beng to tell us wat to do with our $$$….ptui!
Naivety said
Dear All,
Can someone enlighten how could both the Commercial Affairs Department & Commissioner Of Charities able to come out with the total sums & amounts in donations collected by CHC through the years eversince it was founded in 1989 either through donations & tithes given by its 33,000 members accurately?
Since the accounting & financial records in CHC were not in order & being kept properly, the total amount in donations collected would not be able to be ascertained accurately as well right? Not to mention some donations are given in kind and also on cash terms collected during their respective service sessions…how to come with the uses & sources of funds statement correctly then???
Electromus said
If I’m not wrong, the CoC & CAD have been investigating and auditing their accounts thoroughly for, I think, around 2 years before they actually put Pastor KH & the other 4 members currently. They need to have enough concrete evidence to lawfully put them on trial by the way.
Expensive Price said
Technically all the charges need to be proven in the courts beyond reasonable doubt – this protects us from being persecuted without due proccess. If CHC apologizes, then they will seem to be complicit and if KH does so, it will be deemed as an admission of guilt – case over no need for court proccess. Our legal system is adversarial – the will be a winner and a loser at the end of the proccess. Since we have adopted a fee based economy, this potentially lengthy legal proccess could also be uberexpensive for parties involved. For those charged, shudder to think about their attorneys charges. Those charge will not be able to recover legal cost in a criminal trail unlike a civil case
My heart aches said
Very very well said, Rudy! Michelle Tan, you said, “What is so hard about apologizing? What is this wretched pride (perhaps stemmed from our face-saving culture?) that Pastor Kong Hee is protecting?”, and what about you? I see you are not able to do it yourself yet expecting another soul to be “off of this wretched pride” and do it?
kong man fuck sun said
All the same?
p said
Oh, oh,
CAD must win this case at all costs, or else it would be an insult to all Singaporeans. I’m sure they will, Mind you it takes 2 solid years to check the accounts. Cheers to CAD
Adel said
I am not a Christian but I studied the bible with the JWs when I was younger & during my 4yrs stay in the UK. I won’t use staunch to describe my faith but I certainly know God & have been blessed countless times whenever I asked. I have always thought that many churches’ teaching does not tally with the bible, & many Christian does no practice what they preached. It is very discouraging indeed. But Michelle, I recalled so many phases I once studied fr the bible while reading ur article. This is truly very well written.
Observer said
For everyone information,giving of tithe is not even mention once in the new testament. Yet churches are asking for tithe 10% of their income. Tithing belong to the old convenant, even then old convenant tithe by giving foodstuff, crops never money. No churches dared preached this because it concerns their income. If you can find one church that says tithing is of the old convenant, please let me know, I want to attend that church. Frankly, tithing is a main source of income of the church even it is not biblical in the new convenant.
jck said
Amen.
Unless there’s a temple in Jerusalem, tithing stays in the OT.
A biblical writeup on the subject
http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/index.html
P Koh said
This whole saga has nothing to do with God or the CHC but between the Leader of the church, the government and the congregation. The law of the land must be respected and all crimes must be brought to justice and it is between Pastor Kong and the CAD and of course, he is deemed innocent until proven guilty. Then, between Pastor Kong and his followers there is a misplacement of trust if he is found guity and thus have abused this trust by using the money not for the purpose for which the followers have so faithfully contributed. The rest of the people can only sit back and watch as no amount of accusation, speculations and anger is going to help to resolve this situation until the truth is found. The truth can be very painful to many people in this instance.
Bystander said
Whether he is found guilty or not is irrelevant because it cannot hide the fact that there was misappropriation of funds under his charge. If he’s found guilty, means the prosecution is better. If he’s innocent, means his lawyers are better. The courtroom is a place whereby the accused is either found guilty or innocent, in the EYES OF THE LAW. A criminal can commit an offence and yet not be found guilty. An innocent person can be found guilty even if he did not commit the offence.
In the EYES OF THE PEOPLE though, they will remember his Sentosa Cove house, his wife’s China Wine music video, how in the world does his wife’s music and lyrics hope to become a bridge to reach out to non-Christians, the way he preached to “give and give until your heart is broken, until tears stream down your eyes”, his “Yes, I maintain my integrity” quote and that youth from his congregation can use their supplementary card to donate.
The can of worms has been opened and the damage is irreversible. CAD spent 2 years to dig all these out and it will not be in vain.
seah said
i lost so much weight when my KIDS join the Church and refuse to give me MAKAN money.they divert the allowance to the Church.They said GOD bring them up and give them a good education.They thanks God for everything even the food i cook or brought for them.They suspose to thanks their Parent FIRST.I told them they ROT in hell ;they said there is only heaven if they only believe in GOD.They said there is no punishment after after dead.God is everything.
龙的传人 said
敎育孩子失败!那可怪罪以上帝!上帝保佑世人健健康康快快乐乐平平安安。
上帝是我的主，我是上帝的忠贞仆人，我愿奉献一生给予上帝！
Electromus said
Just saying: Those Christians who do not honour their parents, are not true Christians – as they’ve offended 1 of the 10 commandments which is to honour their parents.
God's child said
我也同意，教育孩子失败，哪可怪罪于上帝?
score said
Well expressed with clarity on this CHC saga. Thanks for a well written article. God bless you.
sg said
We surely need christians like you, Michelle.
Singapore Talent said
Sincere, humble and objective article! We need more articles like this!
Kong Hee The Almighty said
There is only 1 true GOD in CHC.
Nope, HE is not from the bible
Nope and he ain’t from Mt Sanai
Nope is HE from the Heavens either
He is Kong Hee The Almighty who stays in Sentosa
Ron said
Hell is big business, maybe even very good business.
I have been to Christian rallies where the pastors loudly proclaim who will go to Hell (usually those in some mainstream denominations), those who do not tithe, those who do not believe in the pastor, etc.
Wow, Hell must be so busy getting customers all sent down by these pastors.
For me, God is Love. He decides on my fate and He knows what I am.
Ah Heng said
A Buddhist perspective of the CHC controversy:
http://threechordsandthedhamma.blogspot.sg/2012/06/pastor-kong-hee-controversy-buddhist.html
Alibaba la u said
wan me to give u a Christian,Hindu or Muslim view of the MING YI Buddhist scam in 2009 ?
God's child said
Yeah Mann!! Way to go, Alibaba La U! 🙂
realty check said
hi Michelle – i am a 59 yr old cab driver. i agree with what u say. when a person donates some money to his church, mosque, temple, i think it should come from the heart with the hope that his family will be happy, remain healthy & free from financial worries. it is not just about getting many folds and bountifolds of money back as preached by kong hee. it reminds me of the jackpot machines saying, “The more u play, the more we PAY”. CHC said that it will speak to their followers on their behaviour on the day kong appeared in court. i had expected kong hee to tell his flock to respect the rule of law & and not to do anything against the law. it was not reported that kong hee said any of this. instead he appeared to have worked his flock into a frenzy state. i HAD great regards for CHC as my son studied at it’s tuition centre 6 yrs ago at suntec city during which my son nearly became a christian too. i had no objection even though i am a buddhist. i thought it was good for him and even bought him a guitar. but after some time he quit being a member of CHC. at that time i was disappointed but after all the articles i read recently about CHC, i am glad he left CHC. i just want to highlight one aspect where i was disappointed with CHC and khong hee in particular. i saw this video where kong hee in one of his sermons praised a couple nick & connie who donated $20.000/- to the CHC building fund after downgrading from a 5 rm HDB flat to a smaller 3 rm HDB flat. what about khong hee? did he make the same sacrifice too? was kong hee’s house getting smaller too. i think everyone who follows the CHC saga knows the answer by now.
Kp said
Really?
God's child said
Do u know that Kong Hee does not take pay from the church, has own businesses that are doing very well, and is often invited to speaking grounds at seminars etc sometimes paid $10,000 in one sitting? If he can afford a big house on his own effort, is it for anyone to question why and what he owns?
anna said
My questions here is did the Apostle make a living out of preaching the gospel? Is it then Biblical for anyone to preach the gospel of salvation for a fee…$10K per sitting??
I am not opposing free will love offerings to the visiting Pastors of a church which are usually a token for their travelling, etc. But paying for seminars, speaking fees on Christ..this is utterly wrong.
Suddenly, we have pastors who don’t called themselves pastors but businessman, who preach for a fee?
Is this a commandment from God??? I don’t think so, it is more a doctrine invented by men who perverse the truth. Salvation is free, God wants your free will to choose Him, there is no two ways about it.
uncles said
The church services are all free. Period. U can choose not to make ANY offering. nobody forcing.
and the seminars n what not, yes they are of the man, but u dun have to go! lol…nobody force u to go what…just go church services la…
just like u go Thai temple, buddhist temple or wat…u go in, take joss sticks n pray rite? then the nuns, monks, staff ask u wan more services? pay for this, pay for that reading, pay for divination…bla bla bla…also cost money? den wat? they all con men la? pls la….nobody force u to pay, u dun nd to pay…
just keep ur money n stay home la….if nt jus go church /temple or wat – DONT GIVE OFFERING lo, dun expect this world we live in to be all free~~ no such thing liao…modern world nw…
Tis is the funny analogy, sometimes i get pissed off, I am doing art….TIS IS MY BUSINESS, some ppl like to ask, hey can draw for me free? paint for me free? sure….once in a while maybe i feel like it, but hey…If i charge for it, u can choose nt to receive it from me, or just go find someone else doing it…right? Like wise, if he go seminar teach or give talk on business or wat, his prob la….unless he go church den sell his business services seminars etc, den say ALL MEMBERS must come, ALL must take part?!
anna said
To Uncles,
Whether you give your painting for free is your free will…whether you are pissed off is also your own business and I am not bothered at all! Your business has nothing to do with the gospel. Since you are such a respected elder (not sure you are a Christian or not) please don’t perverse the truth. Show me where did the Bible ask the Apostles to preach for a fee or pretend to give seminar for a fee or whatever.
Even church members are not aware of the amount of fees paid for invited Pastors to preach. As I understand it, most churches pays a token ( a small sum to cover for travelling expenses) as love offerings. This is not fees for preaching.
Benny Hinn is coming to CHC the next month. Ask CHC how much is his fee? Here we have a pastor (KH) who openly declares that he is a businessman. Are you telling me that he is preaching for free? Did Ps KH and Benny Hinn declare to the church their fee and how much the participant need to pay for their attendance?
Here we have a CHC member declaring that Ps KH is rich because he is receiving seminar’s fee to the tune of $10K per session (from the donkey’s mouth..eh?). I am not bothered and will not judge. Let others decide whether this is appropriate and whether this is a man’s way or is it God’s way.
With due respect to you, although you claimed that you are an elderly, its seems that you are dogmatic in ways in trying to perverse the truth to the tune of causing young Christians like me and many more reading your post to stumble and believe in your crappy comment that pastor doing business and earning income from preaching the gospel from the flock is really an ok thing. What a crap! Your defense are just lame excuses for a 20 over years friend for Ps KH. Should have just retire early to the tomb and spare the youngsters the confusions in your attempt to defend ps KH in this perversion.
P.s. I really respected Ps KH for his many other ministries and his works for church, but I have been confused with his prosperity gospel and felt misled for a long time. It is time to say goodbye to all his nonsense and move on.
Let the truth prevail!!!
God's Child said
Anna, how come you just jump to conclusion that when I said he is paid for seminar, it is “speaking fee on Christ”? Did I say anything on the details of the seminars he went on? Come on, if he can get paid, it is a seminar that the participants have paid for it, ok? I said he preaches for FREE and you go saying he “preach for a fee”? Listen now, Ps. Long Hee does NOT get paid in CHC. He preaches for free in CHC, ok? Who is to say that no pastors should do business, be it open tuition centre or clothing line like Nike? Show me the Bible verse that says it is against God for a pastor to go into business. Ps. Kong Hee happens have a well established apparel business. Understand now?
annabelleling said
let’s just drop the matter…we just have differing point of views and experiences. What I have come to know is different from you.
Let’s instead uphold Ps Kong and our body of Christ for unity and love instead. This saga is splitting the body of Christ. I shared Michelle’s philosophy through my experience in CHC though….never mind.
to Uncles sorry for harsh remarks…
God bless. 🙂
John said
Very nice article, though i am not a Christian. Find it inspiring.
Religion is just one of the teachings the “forefathers” has left behind to guide the “lost” back to the right path.
It really depends how mankind interpret these teachings either for the good for all or to his own selfish benefit.
To me, the mighty one comes in different forms so that people of different races are more receptive towards them when they are preaching.
In the ancient times, it is more of doing good deeds that earn you a place in the so call “heaven”.
but nowadays, seems that money is the root, though the place of worship requires running overheads including paying for the workers inside, but some of them are getting too much money in their reserves and the evil in Mankind will soon unleash itself to corrupt the roots, if these funds are not properly managed by a person of true conscience.
Man does err, as long as he realise that he has made a mistake, he deserve a chance to be forgiven.
My master once share with me, it is good to have faith in the mighty one you trust but not to be superstitious, that is just a thin line.
Cheers.
TAP said
Thanks for writing your thoughts Michelle. I think they are sensible and wise.
I wonder what other Christians think about this matter. They have to make their opinions and thoughts known to the public.
TAP
donavonong said
lol…. Christianity is about your relationship with God and obeying his words which is the bible. Some of the commenters are just comparing and criticising the flaws in christian practice and jumped to the conclusion that Christianity is false. Plz again….its about yourself being accountable to God on judgement day, nobody will give a damn what happen to u and u don’t have to give a damn to what others are doing. Stop comparing and worry about yourself. Anyways thanks michelle well said and God bless everyone 🙂
龙的传人 said
许久以前亜洲区某个巿，曾经发生领袖早晨起身，惊慌失措发现整个海都被不明组织占领，还要胁迫领导就范他们的条件，领袖无可奈何的答应!最后结剧如何不的知！
Keline said
Well Written!
Benny said
Hi Michelle, Obey what jesus say or obey what the scriptures say?? can anyone clarify this?
Malch said
As Christian, we follow the teachings of Jesus. The Bible is God’s word, therefore we obey Jesus through following the scripture.
jessica (@jessicashalom11) said
thought-provoking article. hiya benny, the scriptures contain the gospels which document what jesus said. scripture is god’s word therefore to obey what jesus says and to obey the scriptures is the same. – god bless, jess
sean said
amen.
Benny said
scriptures are written by men such as Matthews & John and revised countless of times as time went on. Some of the scriptures doesn’t make sense while others make perfect sense. Which scriptures do you think are actual words of God while others are not?? Or do we simply follow everything in the bible and believe everything written by men is to be true with blinding faith?
foreigner said
If christian god is so rich and powerful, maybe Singaporeans should pray hard that god will purge Singapore of foreigners. ha ha.
lame... said
U might as well say if buddhist god/gods is so powerful, Thailand wouldnt be so fkin corrupted and be one of the most sleazy (sex-trade reliant) country in the world…
ha ha.
G said
Why do u think certain countries are always affected by natural disasters? People cannot be forced to be good but they CAN be punished.
sean said
Praise the LORD, there are still christians like michelle still live in our midst.
Gabriel said
Even as an atheist who often opposes believers this article gained my full respect.
Professor spiritual said
As an atheist , you do not even have a point to believe in, thus the need to oppose believers.check out an article on the net that says why atheists are the most hated of all groups.. Lol.. Google it.. This article deserved your respect because it has just slam and condemn one of the biggest churches of SE Asia, proving(to your mind) that indeed, religions is a sham- that’s why u so happy and respect. Lol tell me I’m wrong but don’t think so as I once was an atheist and study psychology too.
Gabriel said
Yes I’m happy because this article has slammed one of the biggest churches. But the thing is, I’m happy not because it was the church that was slammed, it’s that there is something fundamentally wrong with this “church” (if this institution can even be considered a church at all). Even if i were a believer I would also be happy because for me this is hardly a church, it’s a cult. I oppose believers because there is something fundamentally wrong with most believers that they refuse to admit or confront
Joe Wong said
Jesus is always merciful to sinners but not religious or spiritual leaders because He knows His sheep are somehow dumb and can be easily exploited by the hired shepherd. When Jesus restored Peter as His shepherd, He asked for Peter’s assurance of his love three times in contrast to Peter’s three denials. For the church leaders: To love Jesus means to “feed His sheep” !!!
Thank you Sister! God bless you always!
Leonard said
The lord will forgive those who truly repent and will welcome them back into their flock.
Pray that the lost souls at CHC will find their way back to the welcoming arms of the lord.
Expose the truth said
i agree with what u said mostly , michelle, but u are the same as any other person in sin~ u judge. Who is to say he is guilty? U? Unless he himself admit, we as outsiders or christians shouldnt even judge…u of all ppl should know this….haiz….If he stand out n admit den yes, he haven admit u say saddest thing he wrong he dun wan admit…do u know of everything that happen? Do u know ppl up there can “create” truths, that ppl will believe? U don’t …u only think he is guilty n so he should confess ” IM WRONG”….but who are u to judge? This is call SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, Michelle…but other wise i hope u know what i mean…god bless u…
PS: Im nt supporter nor HATER…Im neutral and as christians, pls dont judge…u dont have the authority nor the power…
gh20000 said
totally agreed! Amen to that!!! Michelle is just another christian judging and yet act so righteous!
Judge Dred said
Nobody judged anything. The fact is: Mr Kong stays in Sentosa Cove – his source of wealth, is a pastor supposed to be so ostentatious and secular?; his wife gyrated around in revealing attire in her music videos, is this typical of Christian behaviour?
The CAD and CoC FOUND there to be unexplained accounting transactions in CHC’s books, which Mr Kong and his gang has a huge part to play. Do you then judge the authorities to be liars? that there is no such transactions?
Blind faith is euphemism for ignorance.
Professor spiritual said
Judge dred. Even an idiot can see that this article is judging and condemning . Have u heard of karma? What goes around comes around, if they do wrong they will kena, but what abt u n Michelle? U also judge and condemn, so u will also kena the same, so u betta hope or pray (to whatever) that u WON’T commit any shit or wrong less u kena the full cycle of being judged and condemned by ppl u know or loved
G said
We have eyes, brains and common sense.
God's child said
I totally agree with Expose The Truth! Michelle, I wish you have never written or even submitted this article!
God's child said
Totally Agee with Exposé The Truth! Michelle Tan, I wish you have never written more so submitted this judgemental article.
Alice said
Well written, Michelle. Thank you for the clarifications, I totally agree with you.
Expose the truth said
Michelle, i agree with some points u made, but i wish to remind u that u have “judge”. tat is a sin itself…thank you, pls dont be so self-righteous…if he admitted he is wrong, with all evidence den so be it, but he haven…n u say Saddens me, he should have apologized…tat is call judging..lemme remind u tat ppl “up” there can create truths and reality that may otherwise not be…
Just like when antichrist is here , most ppl will think he is a hero and saviour…
god bless u…
nat said
From Godandscience.org
“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” John 7:24
It would seem that Jesus’ major concern is that people do not make snap judgments from what they guess might have happened. Many people (both Christians and non-Christians) tend to fall into this kind of judgment problem, if they are not careful to check the facts carefully. For example, one should not judge a person based upon the group to which he belongs. Not all Muslims are terrorists. Not all Christians are hypocrites. Not all atheists practice rampant immorality. Notice that the verse does not tell us not to judge at all, but to judge according to righteousness.
Electromus said
I agree. I’ve read several Christian (Protestant & Catholic) online journals that write Matthew 7:1-5(often misunderstood about the judging verse) together with the complement of 2 Timothy 4:1-4 & other parables, Jesus actually teaches us to morally judge other sinners (including those who are rejecting sound doctrine in favor of false teaching – Not referring to the CHC case) with righteousness, love and humility as part of Salvation (which some mentioned that Matthew 5-7 point to the Salvation of Christ). Hence, these journals pointed out that the common misunderstanding is that the ‘judging’ parable actually refers more towards people’s judgments on others’ SALVATION.
So, this intends to teach us on how to lead a true Christian life humbly and righteously. BUT before anything, we MUST first recognise ourselves as flawed and imperfect to prevent rash and impetuous judgments or judgments on others that do not reflect ourselves.
黄老邪 said
Well, Kong Hee was also guilty of plagiarizing the work of Christian books by 2 American authors. So how can he a good Christian? he, like his wife, also craved fame and attention!
Born again said
Dear Michelle
Praise God that you have written this article. I am very blessed. I know that this saga has gone crazy. God certainly would not want His name to be blemished.
Dear interested bloggers
I would like to apologise on behalf of the Christian community here. It is never the intent of the Church communities here to offend n Christians love everyone. We are humans n we are prone to err. God never fails n He loves everyone.
I hope that whatever the outcome of the case, it existed for a purpose. God is always fair n just. He knows us even before we came into the earth. I pray that the bloggers would forgive those people who err – be it deliberately or unintentionally.
God bless everyone here!!
Thirtee Ward said
What i heard is: it’s something related to Kong Hee’s previously church root in U.S.
(a church promoting $ with $)
tintin said
City Harvest Church vs Buddhist teach.Jack Neo is a brother of City Harvest Church
Hope you guys watch carefully how difference they are!!!
Here, true Buddhist teaching teach us to look into our mind and lead a simple life.
No offence for all the Christians, but to be really really honest ok… no offence… i know its up to each to believe in one faith… but but.. Buddhist teaching is my take here!I don’t wish to see my kids grown up not to use brain to think.Only blind believe in God.And open mouth close mouth all about is love love God God.How about the rest of you guys???
not a singaporean christian said
Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life. No one Can come to the Father who is in Heaven except through Him (Jesus). for your information, there are monks came from hell and testifies. you are free to choose your path of your eternal destination. freedom of will is your rights. according to life testimony even Buddha also cannot saved himself. A monk descend into hell and saw Buddha Gautama there. feel free to watch this video, MONK SEES BUDDHA IN HELL AND LIVES TO TELL (Guatama) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyTFtSl0IoI&feature=related
not a singaporean christian said
Buddhist monk Visited Hell, and came back to life after 3 days! (Part 1/2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wPi-o97NVg&feature=related
Michelle Tan said
in case you’re curious, I used to be a Buddhist and then converted to Christianity. buddhism preaches tt the way to end suffering is to meditate on emptiness…but Jesus tells us the way to end suffering is to meditate on His Word. For Christians we are taught to rejoice in ours sufferings…in Christ we can be happy no matter whatever obstacle or trial we’re facing. – Michelle Tan
G said
Oh please, not that Illuminati crap. Do u know that particular youtube channel claims that EVERYONE except their type of Christian is going to hell? Yup, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Roman Catholics etc. And THEY PUBLICLY CLAIM THEY DO NOT HAVE TO RESPECT OTHER RELIGIONS. What kind of moron are u to buy their hogwash?
truth said
To G:
For your info, ALL RELGIONS ALSO CONDEMN ALL OTHERS ….lemme show u why~
Catholics and christians go heaven ( as long as you believe and is repentant) ,all others go hell,
Muslims also go heaven ( got half half chance, nt confirm one, decided by Allah)
Buddhists and Taoists attain Enlightenment and also go Nirvana ( through freaking outcast style frm modern society and disengagement frm everything), freed from cycles of suffering, while the rest ALL CONTINUE TO REINCARNATE n Suffer in this world…
Hindus also go nirvana, but the sinners and those who nvr believe, will go reincarnate also…repeat the vicious cycle…maybe u end up a fly to be fuckin slapped dead in 2 sec…
Yup…so u tell me, isnt it obvious all the religions preach their OWN salvation?
LOL….
Therefore, Religions are mad made,
but only,
God is real.
Joe Wong said
Don’t listen to Buddhists say; for they too are sinners. Listen to what Buddha says…..
http://www.facebook.com/#!/notes/joe-wong/buddha-said-%E4%BD%9B%E9%99%80%E8%AF%B4/207257999286987
wikileaks said
this video.i watch it and … yes… hard hard truth!!!
Penn & Teller; The Bible is Bullshit.
Michelle Tan said
we Christians are taught to listen to what God says and not what man says. why watch this video since it is based on man’s flawed knowledge and logic? God’s ways and knowledge are higher than our ways. Who would you rather believe? For me, i believe in the Bible which is the only thing in the world containing God’s Word. Why I’ve kept my faith all these years despite some ‘Christians’ disappointing me…despite my own imperfections….despite my university education in a very very scientific discipline… despite critics lambasting Christianity…despite that I used to be a Buddhist….was that….I was convicted God was real. And He speaks through the Bible and to us in prayer, Once you KNOW something is real…nothing can change your mind…though everything in this world will fail and fade away…God’s word endures forever…His love endures forever…the older i grow the closer to death i approach…the more clearly i see this.
op CHC said
I used to be a Christianity and then converted to Buddhist .. because the always ask me for $$$$$$
To enlighten you, lost soul... said
To Wikileaks: LOl n u based your belief in this video, these idiots who are entertainers and a bunch of ignorant “experts” check out these links urself la, Wikileaks…
Dont be so pathetic, here i provided some links for u to go read….u can choose to believe in these men if u like~ P&T bless u…lol
http://www.steamshovelpress.com/fromeditor21.html
here’s these clowns, Pharmawhores they are used to change public perception of stuff, these guys r nth but ppl making bucks out of slamming ideas, things and everything…lol
They have alot of ppl marking them as meritless worms, and you want to believe their bullshit? lol
http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/penn-and-teller-two-morons-learn-martial-arts/
wikileaks said
Here, true Buddhist teaching teach us to look into our mind and lead a simple life.
No offence for all the Christians, but to be really really honest ok… no offence… i know its up to each to believe in one faith… but but.. Buddhist teaching is my take here!I don’t wish to see my kids grown up not to use brain to think.Only blind believe in God.And open mouth close mouth all about is love love God God.How about the rest of you guys???
srsly... said
No offense to you and buddhists too, but your comment show how u never use your brain to think when you wrote this….and you expect people to believe you that you represent your faith…lol…
no offense but believing in buddha? no thanks, they have alot of people making money out of it too..just go thailand you know already…lol talk about blind faith…and no offense but i strongly encourage you to research on reincarnation…it is totally flawed…go read up….
God's child said
In Buddhism, there is meditation where one tries to empty the mind to reach enlightenment, if have sins and died, be reincarnated into an animal of different sorts depending on how deep is the sins. The wheel turns and next life maybe can become human again. My question: can pigs meditate? So, how can ever any animals come back to the “higher rank” of human beings if all it does is eat sleep fight breed, they have sins too since they do fight, right? They do not even know meditation, so how do they pay for their sins with good works to come back as human beings??? Such big flaw yet so many do not think about it.
not a singaporean christian said
A Buddhist Monk was raised from the dead and when awoken spoke of an afterlife he knew nothing about! Hell, and heaven, something his religion speaks nothing about! His Experiences are as follows!! The Story was taken from China! True Story! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5dM7O-8deE
Michelle Tan said
why should one listen to mere men, who are prone to lies for self interest and are so fallible? the only reason why I converted from Buddhism to Christianity years ago…was that I realized God was real…His Word of truth is the Bible. just my personal testimony. if one keeps listening to mere men…you will solely be disappointed when men you thought were so perfect suddenly fall from grace, their sins exposed. KH is just one example.
Some stuff to share with you said
Let me give some points why I believe in my religion after searching for the “Truth” so many years ago.
First of all, I have come to the conclusion there is a higher power, all science and a part of our soul recognized this inherently.
Secondly, I have then seek out, done research and read up/experience all ( mostly ) main religions, except cults of course, my research also have to cross reference with science findings itself, so it is not just a matter of finding the “religion” that suits your taste. My objective is to confirm, and to seek out the one truth that will be most apparent and clear, where I am heading after this life.
This is what I have found , my own personal opinions, no offence to anyone to any religion, and if you doubt what I written you can go research yourself.
1. Buddhism – Its great, its full of wise values by Siddhartha Gautama, aka Buddha. Monks and believers DO NOT worship any gods, but rather they follow the writings and sutras of it, thereby gaining enlightenment. Also note that he did not claim that he was a god, the child of a god or even the messenger from a god. He was a human being who perfected himself and taught that if we followed his example, we could “perfect” ourselves also. What I cannot accept is that even today, in many singapore temples that says they are buddhist temples, are totally reversed. Most so called buddhists goes to temples to pray to Buddha ( and the other buddhas) for money, love, 4D etc, also offering a myriad of services ( that require offerings too) burn jossticks, but do NOT KNOW A SINGLE thing about buddhism or the teachings. So actually, not only in SG, but many parts of the world, people are actually following the Taoist system and not buddhism. Of course, there are other branch offs, such as Nichiren and Soka Gakkai, but why would I concern myself with branchoffs and not head to the main thing/origin? Interesting to note was that Buddha, was silent on the existence of God, neither of the soul.
So bottom line to believe in him was more to follow this wise guidelines into living, into so called perfecting ourselves, but this answer to afterlife just is not good enough – it does not cover most aspects at all, if even there, about eternity and the world itself. Lastly, Reincarnation, a MAJOR KEY feature in Buddhism, is a concept I have researched and just cannot come to terms with, there are too many loopholes. I will further explain this concept below.
2. Islam – Islam is full of good values too, I have read many parts and therefore can conclude that the words, although paraphrased and summed up differently, coincide and has the same characters from the Christian Bible, but it is similar in certain areas only in the Old testament of the Bible. The God of Old testament is a good god, but Just and strict. All instructions passed down are to be strictly followed, such as no eating of pork and so on. However there is MAJOR DIFFERENCES. Islam’s God is called Allah. Muslims are all born Muslims, with no choice to choose. There are many groups of Muslims, some of which are experienced more “vividly” and disastrous to the world, such as the guys who bomb locations and are called Radical Muslims. Note: The Kuran and Hadith are the pillars of Islam, which all muslims obey. The problem here lies in the fact that how do we define radical islam? People say “radical Islam” but what they mean is the radical verses in the Quran and Hadith. Radical by whose standards? Not by the standards of Islam, since these verses have been accepted without any controversy within Islam for centuries. These verses are not radical for muslims, but they are radical by non-muslim modern civilization.The Kuran is One and only, there are no other so-called Quran for Radical Muslims! Take for example, a few verses:
The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says: Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)
The Quran in Sura 2:228 says: Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status
These verses are just some of the verses that declared women inferior to men, something I cannot accept, I am a man, I feel we are all equal humans regardless of sex. Every one has a soul, not one is higher nor lower.
Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them.
— Holy Qu’ran, Sura ix, 5-6
This verse sums up and justified what Laden is doing in his world, he is hailed as a Ghazi (Holy warrior) in many communities.
This verse(one of many) just sums up and justify what the radicals are doing, they are being true followers, they are certainly not crazy!
I count myself lucky that in this country, most muslims are peace-loving in this country, I shudder to think of the places and countries that have these “radicals” who follow every single verse.
So it should be quite obvious why I didnt go ahead with this religion from my reasons stated. Also, note that the whole book was written(they claimed it was recited, not written, as Muhammad was illiterate) by Muhammad the Prophet, who heard instructions from angel Gabriel, (AR.Jibril). Muslims believe in Heaven and Hell, but the key difference is this, in Islam, it doesnt mean you are automatically entitled to heaven if you believe in Allah. While Christians believe that salvation is assured through faith, Muslims never have assurance of salvation (except probably through martyrdom in a jihad, which is to DIE for their god —Sura 9:20-22, etc). Islam teaches that at the end of your life, Allah weighs your good works against your bad works on a scale. In general, if your good works are adequate, you get to heaven (Sura 23:103). But even then it is not assured because Allah can let anyone in he chooses (Sura 9:15, 27). Muhammad himself expressed doubts about his own salvation (Bukhari 5:266, 9:131).
3. Hinduism – this is even more ancient and older than most religions. As usual, it has its wise and advanced system of teachings and ways to follow. I always wondered about the many deities when I was young, standing outside the temples. Hinduism believes that there is only one supreme Absolute called “Brahman”. But there is also many (thousands) of different gods and goddesses representing different aspects of the supreme one. Hindus follow spiritual scriptures known as “Shastras”, collection by different saints in different time. What I am most interested in, of couse, is the Afterlife. The early Hindus didnt believe in a heaven and hell until much later. And alas, reincarnation is a central key belief here in Hinduism, which again, I must say, is hard for me to accept. Therefore, I have researched much more deeply into reincarnation itself thus…
The concept of reincarnation itself is one theory. That theory is that after we die, we are born again into another body and continue being born again and again. I like that idea and would go for it, but my liking it does not make it a fact. The concept of reincarnation has many flaws. The number one is that, as humans, we all have a mind, a free will, to think and act. And we know animals or insects are limited, they do think, but you can see that they are being “programmed” to certain extents. To say that one would be reincarnated as a cockroach, or fly, you will have to laugh about it hard. The thing is, our world is dying. The galaxy endures on energy and will die soon. So it is not a forever spinning globe for us to have second chances or even what – 8 million lives? I am talking about everyone reincarnating every time they die unless they have lived the sort of life or been given the sort of thing or have had the sort of luck (more on that another time if you demand, but I think for now we can leave it at that) that allows your soul, which is you, to go to heaven. We didn’t call it heaven, but let’s agree to label it that today. And if they don’t go to heaven, people don’t just come back as other people. No, they can reincarnate as goats or blades of grass or trees or heiresses to multimillion dollar fortunes, all depending on what they’ve done in this life. Well, what their body has done in this life. Because you are not your body. You are a soul trapped in a body and your job is to do enough good things and follow the rules so that you can escape the “cycle of birth and death” and finally go to heaven/nirvana. Believing in reincarnation requires that you distance yourself from your self. The only self you can really know, which is the body you’re using right now to read this. Reincarnation says “this body’s just a lump of flesh” (an actual line from a kids’ song we all used to sing when we were little). Don’t get attached to it. In fact, if you loathe it a little, that would probably be best, because then you won’t be in danger of loving this material illusion of self. The self that you are is a soul, a soul you can’t possibly know. A soul that has been in other bodies (which you don’t know) and may very well be in other bodies in the future (which you simply can’t know). And lets not even go there about the world population thingy. It just does not match up. You can probably argue that the new “souls” come from other realms or even hell, other planets but seriously, that leaves more explaining to do and to guess and to believe, and to think about it – well Finally, since there is no way to tell the difference between a baby with a soul that will go to heaven or hell, a baby with a soul that has been around before in other bodies, and a baby with no soul at all, it follows that the idea of a soul adds nothing to our concept of a human being. If that’s the case, both the idea of reincarnation and the idea of an immortal soul that will go to heaven or hell are equally unnecessary.
According to the doctrine, when we sin, we store up “Karma” and then, in the next life, we pay for the Karma we racked up in the last life through suffering and pain. If that was so, it would be an endless circle because we are never sinless and thus as we pay for Karma, we are racking up more. In fact, the Tibetan Buddhists realized this logical dilemma and they solve it by teaching that in order to exit the endless circle of lifetimes on earth, an individual must become a monk and live in a monastery. Presumably the simple life would prevent them from racking up more Karma so at the end of THAT life, they could move on and break the endless cycle.
A nice idea however, for those who of us have LIVED in convents and monasteries, even the most cloistered life does NOT prevent us from sinning since the affinity to sin comes from within. So basically, the monastery idea does not work for ending current Karma.
Why Reincarnation is not Practical
To believe in reincarnation, we have to make quite a leap of faith because when we die, there is NO PROOF whatsoever that we are in any type of control. No human would choose the agony of death even with Karma being a factor. And then, to believe that we fly around and search for parents to “come back to earth” is much more difficult to stomach than to believe that God handles all.
FIRST to embrace this belief, we also have to accept that some human beings are essentially the same with just different coverings. For example, it would be our same soul in each of these lifetimes.
And second, we know that nothing IS alike in nature. Every snowflake is different. God’s creation in the world seems to be opposed to the belief in reincarnation that many human beings throughout time have actually been the same person. Why would His Creation of the most complex and wonderful being on earth be less astounding than the creation of a tiny snowflake. It is much more in line with logic to believe that EACH OF US is a totally different and unique creation which has NEVER existed before in any shape, form or manner. Just look at mankind and history, which same EXACT persons can you find?!
Third, believing that it’s the same individual in different coverings over and over through several lifetimes defies our OWN experience in life. Has anyone EVER met one human being, just one, who is identical to another? Even identical twins who are genetically the same, are as different as night and day when you get to know them.
4) Finally why/where I found God – It is through this historical figure call Jesus Christ I found my answer. In the whole, wide world, no other being has proclaimed that he IS GOD. Before I used to go church when I was young, then led astray, I felt empty, and then when I turned 21, I decided to seek out the truth to life. WHAT IS THERE? WHAT NEXT? IS THIS LIFE ALL TO IT? You see , in Christianity, If the teachings of Christ is summarized into one word then its “LOVE”. The scriptures for christians is this book called the Bible. The Bible is written not by one man, but is composed of 66 parts, or books, written over a period of approximately 1,500 years (from about 1450 BC to about 90 AD) by over 40 different people, instead of just preaching values and teaching people how to behave, the Bible is a book that HAS PROPHECIES fulfilled, historically ACCURATE and not to mention the single most important thing again, GOD who says HE has breathed his words into it.
In fact, If the events in the Bible were false, no writer in his right mind would endure such torture for a lie. Matthew was slain with a sword in Ethiopia. Mark died by being dragged through the streets of Alexandria. Luke was hanged on an olive tree. John was banished to prison in Patmos. Peter was crucified upside down. Jude was shot to death with arrows. Paul was beheaded at Rome by Emperor Nero. All these mentioned were great, historical figures, unlike created lore/mythic-ism by writers. It was only after I seek out the truths, then I realised EVERYTHING I wish to know, can be found in the bible – in fact, it explains how this whole galaxy is formed, and where will we go, and how we can live our lives. Truly this is amazing – other religions may be good and wise with teachings, but they certainly do not account HISTORY together with TEACHINGS, and with PROPHECIES fulfilled. This is also where I encountered the divine, and had my miracles and prayers answered. Everything is in God’s hands, why leave it to risk and chance? To take the risk that I will be reincarnated again? No thanks, I rather believe that in this life, one shot – one shot is all it takes, guys why take the gamble? Its our souls we are betting on. Unless of course some people really do not care, and can happily(I doubt so) live carefree anyhow, then it is their choice. That is the beauty of Freewill I guess. The answer to salvation is simple, no need to guess so much, trust in Jesus/God, faith and following his teachings, ensure Heaven after life on earth, a place that cannot be matched in imagination. Where bodies do not age or decay, nor will there be any murderers or rapists, because they are in Hell. For those of you who keep thinking Why is HELL created, is God evil? Here is a simple answer for you, I hope you can get it – Are governments and rulers EVIL for creating jails and the like? NO!!! It has to be there to house people who are MORALLY, decidedly evil, and bent on doing bad, who do not wish to repent, is as simple as that. You do not expect to go to a heaven filled with immoral, crazy, murderous people do you? Last but not least, like I’ve said, Jesus Christ is the only one alive who proclaimed to be God, and judging by his miracles, the words he said, and his willing sacrifice for all, there is no doubt about it. Everything that Jesus preached while on earth is all about love and peace.
Come; follow the way back to Life on Other Earth (Heaven). “No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven.”(John 3:13)
“You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? (Matthew 5:43-47 )
People may go cynical and say now, :” Hey he is just created, fiction, fake!”, Hey, seriously, this is history matched with scholars and scientists all, if you can even claim this falseness of Him being alive, then you might as well say, ” There is no Gandhi, no Hitler, no Alexander the Great, for I never saw them before, and you can also put in Michael Jackson, cause you never saw him in the flesh before?”. So with that said, I hope you will take my findings interesting, Im not here to influence you to make a decision, but if you are even abit more inclined to find the truth, I salute you – there is nothing greater in life to seek out the truth for your soul and where you go after this life. This life is just a fleeting moment – there’s not much years to spend wanting, and wasting. There will always be good and bad christians, buddhists, muslims and so on around us…don’t let one or one group of people cloud your mind and then go make judgements, that is not the way. Just like in society there will be good bosses and bad ones, do you condemn the company or founder for it?
Think about it. Go do your research, whatever beliefs you are from, if you doubt me or the sources I quote, do not be defensive, just go research your own religion more, even if it makes you a better buddhist, hindu etc I am more than happy for you. Because deep inside I want people not to be empty shells and shallow minded, If you say you ARE WELL VERSED, well, make sure you KNOW what you are really believing in. Don’t follow the masses, parents, friends etc etc….but MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION!
Peace out. I am sure that I have not offended anyone here, just stating facts and sources, alongside my opinion and belief of course.
Sources
The Gospel of Buddha by Paul Carus
bible.cc
biblegateway.com
aboutbuddha.org
http://islamnewsroom.com/answers/112-who-wrote-quran
islam.com
http://www.buddhamind.info
http://hinduism.about.com/od/basics/p/hinduismbasics.htm
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/reincarnation.asp
http://net-abbey.org/reincarnationnot.htm
http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/index.html
Bernstein, Morey: THE SEARCH FOR BRIDEY MURPHY, NY, 1956
Edwards, Frank: STRANGE PEOPLE, NY, 60’s
Holzer, Hans: BORN AGAIN, NY, 1970
Montgomery, Ruth: HERE AND HEREAFTER, NY, 1960
Stern, Jess: IN SEARCH FOR THE GIRL WITH BLUE EYES, NY, 1957
Michaels, Deacon Lawrence R.: Revelation in Its Original Meaning, CA, 2000
Stinett, Robert: DAY OF DECEIT, NY, 2001
Losang, Rato K.;My Life and Lives : The Story of a Tibetan Incarnation, NY, 1977
Francis of Assisi et al: LITTLE FLOWERS OF ST FRANCIS, various publishers (this is a classic work written in the time of St Francis)
Harden, John SJ: Catholic Catechism, NY, 1980
Online sources:
Skeptics Dictionary: Bridey Murphy reality
http://skepdic.com/bridey.html
Reincarnation Reexamined; Investigative Files (Skeptical Briefs March 1998) Cockrell:
http://www.csicop.org/sb/9803/reincarnation.html
Reincarnation from Catholic answers – what the early church fathers taught etc:
http://www.catholic.com/library/reincarnation.asp
PS: These are just sources that I am sharing ( and some I quoted from), it does not state ALL research I have done in the past 5 years.
Mel Chong said
The truth…or so you think.
Freethinker2012 said
Share your own truth then, not a half-assed comment that states nth, at least ppl wrote to include in sources and everything.
Ng Pian Ying said
Very fair comment Michelle, yes to have faith in any religion is definately not wrong. But to protect a person who has committed wrong by way of using religion as excuse is absolutely not acceptable. If proven of the crime, this character is not pardonable by the kindest God in this Universe. ONE VERY DISTURBING QUESTION IS I CANNOT QUITE UNDERSTAND IS, AS RELIGIOUS PERSONS THESE PEOPLE ARE SO PROTECTIVE OF AN ACCUSED AND WORSHIP HIM LIKE GOD. ARE THEY WORSHIPPING GOD OR WORSHIPPING A MAN OR A WOMAN.
IRRESPECTIVE OF WHATEVER WHAT HOPES THEY MAY BE EXPECTING TO HAVE TO HAVE WORSHIP A MAN IS ONLY KNOWN TO THE WORSHIPPERS THEMSELVES, BUT TO OTHERS THIS IS NO DIFFERRENCE WITH THE AFRICAN SCAMS AS ALL HAVE READ IN THE NEWS。
黑钞变美金
uh... said
I have been there and seen it…they are not worshipping him, they are worshipping God…ppl like you who don’t know shit shouldnt spew filth like this…seriously. This is like saying OH CATHOLICS PRAY THRU MARY, so they IDOLIZE MARY….damn freaking ignorant n retarded…
another Christian said
Insightful, wise, full of truth and humility.
Contrast this to a comment I just read on Facebook likening Kong Hee’s plight to the trial and crucifixion of Christ. Aside from the glaring blasphemy, Christ obviously lacked KH’s legion of fans and supporters aggressively defending his cause in public arenas.
Even a simple expression of regret (for unwise decisions/ indiscretions) may be enough to gain the public sympathy they so obviously crave.
P Koh said
God help those who help themselves. The whole saga has nothing to do with God and is between the Leaders of the church and the CAD for foul practices if any which the court will establish later this month. It is also about the Leaders and their followers and whether they have been blinded by faith in their leaders or not is again issues which the followers themselves have to grapple with when the truth is finally out. We, as observers really can do nothing if followers seek to believe in their leaders (for better or worst) and I can see no point in trying even to ask these people to remove the blinkers if they seek not to do so. We can only pray to God to help these people see the “Light” and put their money to better use.
Faith said
Who are we to judge
gh20000 said
Amen!
Electromus said
I believe that for this case, we’re certainly not allowed to judge since we do not know the ACTUAL truth yet. However, I believe that we’re able to judge one another based on righteousness, humility and love right?
Just consider this: If judging is not even allowed, what gives Protestants the authority to judge the Roman Catholics’ rites that they are wrong?
#just saying
jck said
Amen………………
May the Lord forgive us.
The root of the problem in CHC is……THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL, a lie.
A lie which moulded the characters of the prosperity teachers.
A lie which will lead to destruction
Thats not from the Truth of the ALmighty God.
Patrickayu said
Jck you are right it is the prosperity gospel preached by Kong Hee and his group that is the main caused of the problem. Prosperity gospel is a direct export of USA and over the years you see these churches grown so rich with millions in their coffers.
jck said
USA is a material Babylon. Its worldiness has infiltrated the church long ago and
merged into the fabric of the church.
USA has exported a lot of things.
In doing so, it has exported worldiness into the global church as well.
The prosperity gospel is the selling of a product called Jesus Christ through
the network of sales levels in the pseudo church
score said
Good to expose more of such false teaching from USA because we Asians tend to trust more easily than westerners…and we should learn to be more discerning in knowing who camouflage their purposes to pursue their own gains all in the name of Christianity. It is no wonder, in general, many americans are also very wary of such “christians” who stirred up their emotions rather than their minds.
not a singaporean christian said
if you singaporean remains like that, every one of you individually will be judged and will be destroyed..regardless youa re christian or not or if you claimed ignorance i do not know jesus christ or i am a buddhist,hindu or muslim or whatsoever. the message of repentance is quite clear to all of you. this is the generation of mockers and every one is not satisfied of mocking, everyone take advantage over the situations, everyone speak against other religions, everyone interfere what he should not do, every one cannot able to differentiate between right and wrong, every one keep comment after comments, every one of you will be leading to perdition and condemnation. and this is as i say earlier leads to outside interference, now you had seen satanic buddhism had just violatingly get in to preach. the whole shits is all your own mess. you all individually stiff neck, stubborn, act smart, fully intelligent, all of you individually that formed your depressed tiny state of a small island, you decide what is for your future. what you say, is what you going to do and what you do will shape your destiny and change tomorow. sayonara.
Teachers supporter said
Good !
G said
You need to grow a brain and stop smoking/snorting whatever you are on.
Oh, and get some English lessons when you are sober.
why do people not respect waiters!! said
The Bible teaches christians to follow the doctorine that jesus christ had preached to his followers in the eyes of prosecution by the romans, he wanted the people to lead a life that there was a god looking all over humans beings and that love and respect to everyone was the key topic to maintaining a peaceful society, rather than treachery and force that the romans had used during the period that jesus had lived.
The giving of money to the church was a sign of commitment and support so that the church was able to expand and grow so as to reach to more people who had not heard of the saying of jesus christ, and therefore be saved and converted from the pagan religion that was practiced during the time when jesus christ was alive.
It was until the coming of the unified roman empire that the faith of christianity was further expanded into europe and its influence was further spread through the jesuits in spain to the far shores of japan and china and eventually the whole of Asia.Historically we know that it was the romans who were the first to encourage the citizens of rome to donate generously to the church so that they could build great churches protraying the greatness of god.
But there was no mention that the money donated will allow the followers to physically gain more wealth from god.
In the present contect of the CHC Saga, it is the greed factor of the members of the church that obviously has blinded them from the true path of christianity, similar to those who pray to the god of fortune in the hope to get rich instantly. I believe when the bible says that believers will grow when they give their tithe, it is in fact saying that the followers will grow in their faith though the information learnt from the bible, as in the past there was no printed bible during the life of jesus christ and everything was taught verbally. Only until the invention of the printiing press was the mass production of the bible was achieved.
Pastor Khong Hee’s message to his followers could have been interpretated as the more you gove money to the church, the more you will gain in monetary terms in your lifem, which i guess is the dream of all singaporeans in these difficult times, as such the membership will grow in numbers as many hope that they will gain richness in monetary terms through their worship of god. But if pastor khong hee had intentionally prayed on the greddiness of his followers and intentionally used the message that money was the way to godship, then i guess it would be the greatest sin commited by any pastor in singapore.
But i must admire the amount of admiration that pastor khong hee’s followers have for their pastors and the support they shower on him when he gives his sermon, if this is so, they should give more tithes and hire the best lawyers in singapore to fight the case and prove their pastor’s innocence. They should according to Pastor Khong Hee lay out all their wealth so as exort their pastor to the highest court and sue the CAD and commitee of charities for wrongly accusing their pastor. But of course if their pastor is proven gulity base on facts and evidence, if they love their pastor so much they should then sacrifice their personal freedom and therefore take up the jail term or fine on his behalf so that their great pastor can continue to encourage more believers to donate more money to the church to support his wife’s career. I guess that is the best solution to this saga. REading the comments from all the others former CHC followers does remind me of the way north koreans love for their demised leader kim jung il. The dedication and love for their great leader in the face of famine and worldwide scrutiny is so similar to that of what is happening at CHC now!
Lawyers4eva said
Always a great day to be a lawyer in Singapore. Yay.
not a singaporean christian said
in the last days there will be mockers and even despise the word of GOD (bible) that created them in the first place. let them be. they are delivered to satan for their own self destruction.
G said
Damn, you are annoying.
God's child said
And you are rude.
jf said
In prosperous Singapore a young person’s income will definitely increase year by year, not because of what Kong Hee’s said.
Business opportunities are also great in Singapore. So some will be rich earlier in Singapore. If each of the 30,000 members bought a 4d number, 3 will win 1st prize and so on for the 13 numbers drawn. So the winners praise god….. So Kong Hee actually copied the temples that gave out 4D numbers, except that Kong Hee promises that God will give everyone eventually.
God's child said
It is NOT nice what you wrote.
Carefour said
Not nice meh? ok lar, this is why people flock to CHC. Back then the missionary also systematically destroy religions too, this is why Europe lost most of its culture and become monotheistic. Now, we have little left to defend and we ought to be because this is what is going to pass down after we die. Sometimes in the future, our children will question why are we following this religion from a land so far away and not have our own.
Neutral said
The effects of whether he is found guilty or not, is not as important as the effects that this can of worms that has been pried open has on society. Innocent or not, cannot hide the fact that there was an act of misappropriation of funds. I did not say if he is guilty or not, because it is subjective. A person will always have a reason to justify his action. He may commit an offence but thinks he is not doing something wrong. In the eyes of the law though, he is found to be guilty because according to the law, he has broken a rule. But that does not mean the criminal will think he is really in the wrong. It just means how he judges himself varies from how the law judges him.
Someone can commit an offence and yet not be found guilty in court, due to reasons like lack of sufficient evidence, having the best defense lawyer etc. But it does not negate the fact that the act of committing an offence has been carried out. Conversely, one who is really innocent can be found guilty due to circumstances that are out of his control. Of course, if both types of cases were to occur, people will ask “Where is the fairness?” which is another story for another day. The real truth is whether a person is guilty or innocent, only himself will know.
In my humble opinion, what i foresee is this: if the court finds him guilty, he will make himself out to be a victim, that this is what God wanted for him, that he will pull through this, become a better person AND continue to preach the prosperity gospel (that is if he does not go to jail). If the court finds him innocent, he will come out as a hero- to his congregation only of course – who cares about the rest of the population when you have 30,000 die-hard supporters who worship you like a god (though the numbers may be dwindling each day that this saga continues)
And it gets even more complicated because they are now charging 5 people. Will it be “all guilty”, “some guilty”, or “none guilty”, the last option of which I seriously doubt so.
The can of worms that has been opened has inflicted irreversible damage. This is unlike previous charity scandals due to the unprecedented amount of monies and because it involves a religion, which I believe is one of the most abused by none other than Man himself.
Teachers supporter said
A good piece of article that tells non-believer that Christians like u are equally hyprocitical. How interesting it is to read an article that is judgmental to the pastor when the trial is still on-going.
The best part is when you actually use ‘we’ to represent all the Christian. So, this is what true Christian is all about. That perhaps may explain why there are still so many non-believers around. Bottom line, you still have no idea what it really means to love God. You may know His words but you do not know Him. That’s why many are called but few are chosen.
Next, why don’t u start thinking whether would u believe that Mary was a Virgin even when she was pregnant in those days. U r most likely to be one of those Christians who would not believe Mary and condemn her in those days.
Everything happens for a reason and only the Almighty has the answers. Whatever the outcome is, God has it under control. Similarly, he would have planned you to write this article and perhaps, a chance to see your heart.
Instead of showing how sad u r towards CHC pastors and members, it’s better for u to guard your heart. You said that action speaks louder than words but yet your action (this article) does not speak of love at all. It’s judgmental and you give people the you-know-it-all attitude. Trust me that God is watching you too.
If this is not what you can control, let God handle. Man will let you down but God will never let you down. It’s time to let go.
yep said
Amen to that…let us christians all unite, and not be stupid and slam other christian and even your own down..makes me think are u(writer) really christian or jus pretending to be…
Michelle Tan said
Dear Teachers Supporter,
Mary was called by God. she was a humble servant and did not seek self. what makes you think i would not have belived mary and condemned her? you are using an utterly false comparison. this way you are saying i woul dnot have believed jesus was innocent and wld not have believed he was the son of God…apparently you have not read my article fully to see the part where i said…there is a difference between being persecuted for righteousness and persecuted for folly
there you are judging me when you do not know me. you do not know what i do, who i am yet you are saying i do not love God. THAT is presumptuous; you are not only judging me…you are reading my article out of context and judging me for things I never implied. Please brush up on your evaluative/critical writing skills before you judge….do you think I wrote this to babble about the saga when God well said, “Transgressions are many when words are many???” It is because I felt led to defend the name of my God….there is a time to speak and a time to keep quiet, in Ecclesiastes it says. Just because you have this mental picture Christians should always never speak out…doesn’t mean that is what we should do. When questioned by the authorities when he was on the Cross, Jesus kept silent. Yet there were times Jesus was very vocal as welll, such as criticising the corrupt Pharisees who stole from the temple tithes and imposed lots of laws the poor could not execute (sounds familiar huh)
In response to my non Christian parents friends and the public who now seem to have the impression that all churches are like CHC, I respectfully refuse to apologize for writing this article! To be defamed for righteousness like Mary is perfectly fine…to be framed for righteousness is perfectly fine….but to be defamed and framed for wrongdoing? Even if he weren’t arrested…what I have personally witnessed – a Public Figure’s actions are open to all- is theologically wrong. This concerns heaven and hell. This concerns the Christian witness. We want to be seen as fools for the gospel…poor, weak, meek, yet mighty warriors of God. We DO NOT WANT TO BE SEEN AS LOVERS OF MONEY. THAT IS NOT WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS ABOUT There is a difference. A marked difference.
Christianity was NEVER about money. Whether or not Pstr Kong Hee gets charged, the truth is he is preaching the prosperity gospel. If anything, ANYONE dares to TWIST THE WORD OF GOD for his own purposes hence dragging people AWAY from Jesus…it is US CHRISTIANS responsibility to speak out. read somewhere there is a difference btwn REPROACHING AND JUDGING. the apostles in the NT did not mince words reproaching fellow believers for what they did wrong. that is never ever judging. i know the gospel i believed in when I converted to Christianity 3 years ago…and if anyone else preaches a different kind of gospel…your persecution and harsh words aren’t going to stop me from speaking the truth. As God leads me to. For the sake of all the unsaved people who are watching and reading.
-Michelle
markycenactment said
I completely agree with that. Our sense of judgement should yearn for justice.
We do have a right to point out if we believe something to be wrong. e.g. social injustices with maid abuse, foreign worker discrimination…
This should be the template answer for people who say “don’t judge you judgmental (expletive).”
Peter said
Just a response from someone that is not a CHC member, in fact lives in another country.
Firstly, God does not need to be defended nor His word …He is after all God and more than able. If He does need to be defended by you or me, then we are in deep trouble. 🙂
The problem is many spiritually dull people rely too much on their intellect (his thoughts are above our thoughts Is 55:9) and in doing so reduce God in their lives. He is way beyond our limited understanding (Prov 3:5 do not lean on your understanding). Whilst God can never be fully understood He can be discerned. As you mentioned we need to worship in spirit and truth – the spirit reveals the truth. The gospel is grace and truth (John 1:17) when we depart from grace we both, depart from the ability to discern the truth and effectively minister the gospel – salvation can only come by grace (Col 2:8). Whats the point? In response to Kong, Sun and CHC are we now just relying on our opinion of the truth or do we respect the cross and hold onto His grace?
There is no problem promoting the gospel through our testimony of God’s goodness – this is grace and truth in action. Nor is there an issue with healthy discussion. However, as a christian, when we start speaking the truth (as we understand) that no longer ‘imparts grace to the hearer’ (Eph 4:29) we unwittingly become participants in a scheme to promote disunity. This is the key message of Paul to the Ephesians.
You imply Ps Kong stole tithes – the funds in question were not from tithes (used for the running of the church) but free will offerings that members donated to the CHC building fund (charity fund). The members gave these funds as their prayerful and sincere response to God towards the vision presented by the senior leaders of CHC. The issue is whether these funds were misappropriated from the intended purpose and therefore misleading their donors. These charges will be defended as the donors were aware of the ‘cross over’ strategy and furthermore all funds invested were under written, that is, guaranteed. The funds in question were already repaid to the charity well before all this started. BTW some of the results of this strategy were over 350,000 people making decisions to receive Jesus Christ as their saviour.
You make an assumption in your article about Gods judgement on kong as he ‘continues to disobey Him and indulge in sinful behaviour’? I can assure you in his mind he is being completely obedient to God – now whether he has over stepped the mark according to your law is yet to be determined by proper legal process. However, it is a very bold step on your part to speak with such judgment as though you are God’s voice on the situation.
Lastly, there is only one gospel and God has no problem with people prospering. Ps 35:27 The Lord …has pleasure in the prosperity of His servant. As a dad I would want my kids to be successful in all they do, what Father wouldn’t!
We are called ‘the light’ to the world and we have a responsibility to prosper and be successful. How else can we help a poor person eat if we don’t have something to give?
The critics of prosperity theology, as they call it, suggest all proponents that teach ‘prosperity’ treat God like a divine Vending Machine: put in faith and out pops blessings – money, homes, cars, beautiful spouses, clever kids, good neighbors, big churches, and plush vacations. God is there for us; we are here for God to bless. This is what the critics think is being promoted and whilst there has been a misrepresentation or at least a misinterpretation of this teaching, we ought not throw out the baby with the bath water.
It is about prospering on purpose – His purpose. Not about self consumption, however God actually has no problem with you enjoying your life according to:
1 Tim 6:17 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, 19storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Paul states God ‘gives us richly all things to enjoy’ however just don’t allow success to lead you into pride and therefore lose sight of doing good works and being generous.
What does it mean to prosper according to the bible?
• Success along the way
• Generosity
• Fewer your needs
• Able to give on all occasions
• Living in the kingdom of God
• Safety, health, soundness, and contentment (Shalom)
• Secure in your source of supply
Ps 23 ‘The Lord is my Shepherd I have everything I need’ – He is the one that loves us. He is the source of our protection, provision and guidance. Because the Lord is my Shepherd I shall not want. Why? Because I believe I have everything I need in Him.
Why prosperity? 2Cor 9:8 “And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work”.
Before God is the ‘Accuser’ and the ‘Intercessor’ we have to choose each day which side we are on. I’ll be praying for Ps Kong and Sun and I hope you may consider joining me. Grace and peace to you Michelle.
Amen to your view, Peter. said
Peter, Amen, you perfectly understand what it is to be christian. God Handles all…There are many things we do not yet understand, but it is all in the grander scheme.
Let me state a simple example. Judas Betrayed Jesus, but yet, he was the chosen one to do it, there is a reason and role for every one to do their parts, christians and non christians who judge and make assumptions, I warn you : be reminded not to be like the Pharisees or stone casters, you in your self-righteousness to speak up, will only disunite more. Not improve anything.
Christians are one of the religion , announced to prosper, to be mighty, to be generous, there’s no shame in being rich or anything, unlike some religions which preaches more on being content.
While God may not bless every one with riches, blessings come in different forms. So this material so called preaching prosperity is a very subjective point friends.
Most of you never see how many non believers got saved- this is very important to us christians, most outsiders will never know why unless they study the reason. You just see the media and then judge:” oh tat idiot is a con man…” typical shallow minded mortals?
score said
To “Amen to your view, peter” – about non-believers being saved – who really knows WHO are the REAL “saved” ones, huh? There are all sorts of people who attend church, you know? One may have personal motives but just go along with what the “leaders” say / instruct. You benefit, I benefit….why not….all in the name of a “religious belief”????? See, only the “invisible” can see the truths….
If u want to measure “saved believers” by numbers, think again, man.
CHC should have form its own “religious” group or any “POPULAR group that has great marketing tactics”, who cares! If there’s no camouflaging or inventing “religious beliefs”, there would be no issue with most people – christians and non-christians alike. Search again…. what it means to be “saved”, my friend.
Lastly, quoting the One who founded christianity, He said : “It is more blessed TO GIVE than to receive”. So, the motives of giving has never ever about the outcome of one’s prosperity.
Truth said
“It is more blessed TO GIVE than to receive”. And that’s why even when christians give (with valid reasons or not, to poor, to needy, to their beliefs, to their friends in need), they are still happy, my friend.
Whether how many percent really got saved n the “numbers”, as you mentioned, only god knows, but what you are stating is just rhetorical, everyone knows that not all people who got into the “safety boat” will be saved in the end anyway, so are you stating that- You can do a better job? Go on, go ahead and try to create a religion, or try to market whatever your religion(or lack of it) is….TALK is CHEAP, my friend. Think about it.
ALL THE NUMBERS that are reported are not confirmed saved, Cos at the end of the road, the person still got his/her mind of their own, but the effort to reach out by any church, dont under”play”, and dont put down ppl for what they have done…and only focus on the so called “bad”. Alot of people very eager to throw stones, christians or not…that is the disturbing truth.
And your advice to think about what it means to be ‘saved’, I do not know what you believe in, but I will pray for you, may you seek the truth and god bless you.
Michelle Tan said
@Peter. I beg to differ on the definition of prosperity in the Bible. prosperity in the Bible does not only refer to money. it refers to spiritual riches. Jesus didn’t come 2000+ years ago to make the beggars and poor people millionaires…he came to preach the gospel of good news…Jesus is our treasure…there’s no treasure greater than him…just watched this sermon of Kong Hee someone posted…titled “Was Jesus rich?” In the sermon he twisted facts in the Bible to prove Jesus was rich and that the miracles he did was not supernatural but rather because of his riches and connections. Which is a very dangerous heresy! He is giving the credit to money instead of God. It doesn’t take subjective judgment but simply logical comprehension skills to derive at the game he is playing. Without arguing about the theology of the prosperity gospel…the mere frequent emphasis of money is also very telling of one’s preoccupation. The world loves money. That’s why some people idolize money via “the Fortune God”. But true Christianity is saying money is not the solution. True riches is found in Christ. It takes money to build church walls…but Jesus came to build a church without walls…the riches of the Kingdom is within us…without a church building built by physical riches, non Christians should be able to see the spiritual richness in us, instead of being distracted by our physical wealth. I can have all the money in the world…
“But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ” – Philippians 3:7-8
Peter said
I don’t think you are reading carefully what I wrote. I gave 7 definitions of ‘prosper’ which are all derived from the bible that include things like – a successful journey; living in the Kingdom (righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit); safety, soundness, health and contentment (Shalom) – all these things are not related to money.
There is no argument about Jesus being our great treasure, the pearl of great price, the ultimate gift to mankind. I agree that apart from Him I have nothing of value. He is my all in all. So when one says it’s about ‘spiritual riches’ is that not suppose to translate into our physical world? It all sounds quite pious and sincere but really falls short of our mandate and responsibility before God.
What is ‘good news’ to a poor person (Luke 4)? You can be hungry for the rest of your life but spiritually rich? Good news to a poor person is you don’t have to be poor anymore. You may or may not be rich but you certainly don’t have to be poor (in Christ) spiritually, psychologically, and physically.
You say ‘true Christianity is saying money is not the solution’ …really? Money in it self may not be the solution, but christians without money are limited in their solutions to meet the needs of their communities. James 2:14 -18 “What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do”. Spiritual riches should translate into meeting physical needs. James makes the point there is a relationship between faith and meeting physical needs. In order to give we first need something to give – the more we have the more we can bless others. Prov 11:24 “One man gives freely, yet gains even more”
In Acts 3 we read about a cripple that is carried daily to the temple gate that he may receive money to sustain his life. It was through the people of God that his physical needs were met for a long time. However, Kingdom social justice not only meets his physical needs outside the gate but aims to bring him into the full spiritual experience God has for his life. (Peter and John perform a miracle and bring him into the temple).
It is not about spiritual versus physical – the spiritual governs the physical. Whether its the good Samaritan (Luke 10) paying the hospital bill for the wounded man or a prayer to bring healing to a lame man, both are spiritual acts.
Money is a valuable tool in the hands of the righteous. Jesus makes a distinction you will either serve God or money – the aim is we serve God and money serves us. Each year I am responsible for raising and investing close to the equivalent of a million Singapore dollars into our community initiatives Matt 5:16 “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven” The beneficiaries (youth at risk, single mums, poor, sick etc) of these investments see our ‘spiritual riches in us’ by what we do to meet their physical needs. Good attitudes with no action may make us easier to get along with but does little to bring Christ into people’s lives. I also am involved in praying for the sick and see God bring healing to 100’s of lives each year through me – the point is one activity is not more spiritual than the other.
You conclude with a scripture from Paul to the Philippians when he was in prison – an important perspective …priority of knowing Christ. Paul also says in chapter 4 in reference to receiving an offering to meet his needs “Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that abounds to your account. 18 Indeed I have all and abound. I am full, having received from Epaphroditus the things sent from you, a sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well pleasing to God. 19 And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus” A promise in response to their physical giving!
Paul also says in 2 Cor 9:6 “But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work. 9 As it is written:
“He has dispersed abroad,
He has given to the poor;
His righteousness endures forever.”
10 Now may He who supplies seed to the sower, and bread for food, supply and multiply the seed you have sown and increase the fruits of your righteousness, 11 while you are enriched in everything for all liberality, which causes thanksgiving through us to God. 12 For the administration of this service not only supplies the needs of the saints, but also is abounding through many thanksgivings to God, 13 while, through the proof of this ministry, they glorify God for the obedience of your confession to the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal sharing with them and all men,
In conclusion I leave you with the following passage from Luke 6:32 “But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. 35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. 36 Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
37“Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”
Shalom.
rudy said
Peter, what a fantastic response. The world needs more people like you.
God's child said
Michelle Tan, it is time for you to stop typing so much. Why does ps Kong Hee has to apologize NOW before the trail is over? Based on what are you putting the guilty sentence on him when even the case is on “alleged” status?
God's child said
Peter, thank you so much for your response! I have similar thoughts only you put it so well. What you wrote should be what that was published!
My heart aches seeing this article! said
Michelle Tan, you said in the above comment that you “respectfully refuse to apologize for writing this article!”. In your article, referring to Ps Kong Hee, you said, “What is so hard about apologizing? What is this wretched pride (perhaps stemmed from our face-saving culture?) that Pastor Kong Hee is protecting?”. SO THEN, what about you?! I see you are not able to do it yourself yet expecting another soul to be “off of this wretched pride” and do it?
G said
The irony in your entire comment about hypocrisy, judgements and assumptions is mind-boggling. Do you know how deluded you sound?
I don’t claim to be Christian or non-judgemental. I have a brain, common sense and logical skills so I’ll use them when I want. I think you are probably one of the pastor’s supporters bleating here. It’s even more frightening if you are not his supporter and just some random, rambling fool.
Michelle said
Your idea of judgment and reproach and discernment is messed up. The point is…non Christians have already judged the bad testimony of CHC…many people, my non Christian mom..friends etc keep telling me why all churches like that? The point of this article is to show what true Christianity is…for this sake of Christian testimony which to me is important and to you you have no interest in I guess. To defend the God I know. I make no excuses for that and for you to continually throw at us baseless assumptions based on what you ‘think’ and ‘feel’ without consideration of what God feels or thinks…I’m gonna accept it!
Truth said
The point is that, now i see where Michelle is coming from, …..because ppl ALL ard her condemn churches and her religion, so she have to DEFEND HERSELF, not the god she know…
come on, God does not need defending. Agree? U actually wrote this article, and try to make all ppl think like u or to accept your “defense for god” and then think that you have not condemned, nor judged? That is delusional my friend, its time to admit this fact. Sorry….I still love u and God loves you, but…you have just given yourself away with this last paragraphs on why you wrote this article in the first place.
Michelle Tan said
Dear Truth,
Slander me all you want! I will let you.
As for what I write in this article, when I stand before God one day, I answer to Him, not you. Whether I am deluded then, He will tell me and punish me if I am.
Alibabas said
Dear Michelle.
Exactly! just as what you wrote, you answer yourself, so shall what KH or CHC ppl do/done/support answer themselves. Dont you see your answer here is like slapping yourself in the face?
He will tell and punish them/KH, not you. Who are you to judge and condemn?
’nuff said.
God's child said
Alibabas, very very well said !!!!!!!
Michelle Tan said
Exactly. Do you think i wrote this article because I just felt like it? As if I have so much time? I wrote this only because my friends and family think as a result of this incident that churches are all about asking for money and little else. It is the spiritual damage their testimony has done, even before the final court decision has come to pass, that we are so concerned with. If I remain silent my conscience would not allow it. To speak the truth when ASKED is our duty. For to know what is right not to do it, it is sin. I am not condemning the people involved but condemning the prosperity gospel. Which is what Jesus condemned, which is what Apostle Paul condemned, which is what biblically-sound preachers nowadays like Paul Washer and John MacArthur condemns. The gospel is more than money I don’t know where are you coming from nor your agenda, but you trying to judge what I write as judgmental without biblically based facts (are you even a Christian) is totally telling. No one is perfect, based on what you say, then when asked about this incident, all Christians should purse our lips, keep quiet, and fail to speak what is right acc to you? No, we shall not obey you a mere human, but God. I welcome biblically-based facts not people who accuse blindly based on their ‘feelings’ such as you. For who knows what is in your heart, you may be a lover of money or have other personal biases against Christianity that pre-judged whatever Christians write, that is why I can’t trust what you claim. To discern out false teachings is what a Christian is told to do. For you to confuse that with judging is really…*idon’tknowwhattosay* (->quotes Tin Pei Ling!) As for whether this discernment is correct, I answer to God. Stop confusing discernment with ‘to sin or not to sin’. You are comparing oranges to apples;) And I take what you say with a pinch of salt.
anna said
I totally agreed with you Michelle.
gccc v said
Funniest thing is, christians are the most vocal ppl abt this incident vs the non christians
My heart aches said
Michelle Tan, you have made a laugh stock of yourself.
Xicius said
I was moved by the article. Indeed, I was invited to an drama by a friend and I didn’t know it was an Easter drama by CHC back in 2004. Now I realised after a lot of struggles, I was “brainwashed” by the people there. Our fathers worked hard for the prosperity Singapore has today, not the “prosperity gospel” that some people brought in. In 2004, I was excited because I had depression in 2003 and thought God will do the healing, but in a wrong way.
I had depression till today, but gradually improving not because of so-called instant healing, but the love of God shown through the doctors and rehab centres. Now, I had to unlearn everything that CHC taught me for a few years and look at the Bible itself.
Michelle Tan said
hi xicius, good to hear that! great to hear that God’s love is healing you.Rejoice and smile for you are a wonderful treasure of God! so precious to God that the devil found it worthy to attack you with a spirit of depression to rob away your joy, coz he found it an intimidating and powerful force! but stubbornly hold on to that precious joy – a gift from God! The Bible says, the joy of the Lord is your strength;) Yep always return to the Word of God for that is what we can trust(: Many good online sermons too, the word is discernment.
carl said
finally someone with a right mind set…
Betty said
Michelle Tan: I have never met you but want to thank you for your write up of such truth, that I too hope all followers of God, will be able to see. Philippians 4:8 ~ And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise.
Truth said
This “truth” is Michelle Tan’s truth…there are many truths ppl believe in, ever watch the MAtrix? U shld thank me for tat, go watch the MAtrix…sometimes, even “truths” are not truths…they are believed to be truths yet are created false truths…
Michelle Tan said
One day when we stand before God…we will answer to Him, and let us see what He says…whether what we said and did was to build up His Kingdom…or to tear it down.
Observer said
As a Christian, I have been a silent reader of all the commentaries on this matter in the papers and through the social media. I shall refrain from commenting on the case itself but the comments thus far put forth by KH supporters have been a great revelation of how God’s word can be distorted and taken out of context. Is that what has been preached in CHC all this while? The rumors have been certified true through this episode as supporters proclaim the fact of them being materially rich is the PERFECT testimony of God’s blessings. Since when is God’s blessings determined by material wealth? We are all called to be like Jesus (although we can never be perfect like him), carrying the cross daily and serve God. Jesus lived humbly and his focus was always on others, not self. Does the lifestyle of KH & his wife as well as his message reflect this?
aly said
I guess when you say you don’t want to judge the people involve in the sage, you actually in-turn judged the whole church from the perspective you have of the church regarding the prosperity message. Hope you will understand what does the body of Christ means.
”’According to 1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” What is so hard about apologizing?”’ -but only God to judge. I respect your views and feelings. if they have committed the crime, they will suffer the consequences on earth and needless to say about the eternity we believe in.
”’Human progress is neither automatic nor inevitable… Every step toward the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals.
Martin Luther King, Jr.”’ – Let concern not turn into anything ugly.
I am not seeking for an argument or rebuttal because it does not contribute or help this whole saga. But articles and comments are meant for us to reflect.
yes said
And that’s what I said. We shouldnt even judge and condemn….To judge and reproach, that’s the job of the seniors or elders inside that church. People who read this and then goes: yes I agree , You are RIGHT! are mostly ppl frm outside/other religions…if you meant to reproach and change the minds of the CHC members, you think writing this will help? This so called need to “bring” justice to christians by doing us a “favor” in writing this is seriously…(subconsciously) disgracing our whole religion instead….sigh…people should take up psychology classes….so high and mighty, so self-righteous , so writing this article – tell me: ” What do you gain from this?” other than what i have stated?
sigh…
Michelle Tan said
(Reminds me of how Jesus was totally trashed(and finally crucified by the Pharisees) for speaking the truth about the Pharisees who were religious leaders yet stole money from the tithes people gave…)
The fact you asked what I gained from this is very sad. There was something I read somewhere before – people who would only do things out of self-interest/ agenda would naturally think other people also do things only out of self-interest/agenda. In this Singaporean rat race where everyone is about “What can I gain? Is this worth my time?” the true gospel is not about self-gain – it is about self-denial and taking up the Cross. We are dead to self and alive in Him who died for us.
Ask not what have I gained? But what have I gained for HIM. – more people knowing the truth of the gospel. That the gospel is not about money and carnality. That my non Christian friends and family and public view of Christianity had dropped because of CHC saga (thus the reason I dropped this) – they think all churches only ask for money to serve themselves – made them even more dun wan to go to church. For them to read this and understand the biblical concepts mentioned, to read these Christian verses they may not have read before…and to see beyond hypocrisy they can testify to in many so called ‘Christians’ nowadays…for them to glimpse the riches of the gospel of which makes the physical riches in this world seem like utter rubbish…..for them to be one step closer to being saved…PRICELESS.
God's child said
Michelle Tan, this is like slapping on your own face again. Now you have just experienced what you gave to KH – doing what you sincerely think that is not wrong and then being punched left and right by people like yourself. I wish you had chosen to be more gracious in what you have wrote and sent in.
Celeste Lim said
A friend of mine tweeted a link of this article, with the line \”CHC saga put in a rationale way\”. Seeing as the title of the article stated that it was written by a Christian, I was expecting to find something more objective and measured. Sadly, when i reached the 2nd paragraph i knew it was headed in a different direction from what i had expected.
Firstly i would like to clarify that i am not a CHC member, but i have been following my parents to CHC for the last couple of years. I am not attached to any cell group or ministry in the church as i feel that i can\’t fit in with the congregation there. In fact, at the start of this year i actually started attending another church, but i occasionally visited CHC during special services like Easter, Fathers and Mothers day. I admit that sometimes the way the services were run made me feel uneasy and uncomfortable, but growing up in a Christian home, i was taught that we are not to judge a church or any other thing based on our own personal preferences. For me, i accepted that CHC was not my preferred church, and therefore i chose to leave. However the few years of sitting through CHC services have allowed me to experience first-hand what many people, including the writer of this article have misunderstood.
With regard to Michelle\’s first point that CHC \”kept emphasizing giving money\”, i have to say that she is horribly mistaken. While it is true that they do invite several members to give testimonies on how God has blessed them financially since they increased their giving, it is completely untrue that CHC believes and preaches that Christians are to give to God because we want God to give us more. These testimonies are given as an encouragement and proof of God\’s faithfulness to His people when they obey Him. In the Bible it is written as a command to tithe, not as a suggestion. As a church, they are encouraging people to obey God, not forcing them, and definitely not saying that they should give only because they want to receive more from God and prosper. When asking for tithes and offering i remember often hearing the pastor reminding the congregation that we give because we want to be more like Jesus and we want to obey Him. Also throughout all my years there, i have never once \”received a different gospel from the one (I) know\”. Everything is congruent with the Bible.
Addressing her second point about how the defensive behaviour of CHC members has disgraced Christians, I personally feel that to use such a strong word as \”disgrace\” is unfair for the members as they are just showing their support for their leader. It is only natural for members to want to defend their pastor as they as a congregation have seen him week after week speaking God\’s word and they would know better than members of the public what kind of a man he is. The mention of Kong Hee never goes without the mention of the church. The church was in the headlines and i\’m sure as a member you would have felt that the church name was defamed.
The church members are also certainly not \”blindly continuing to profess their faith in Pastor Kong Hee\”. The church worships God, not Kong Hee. I remember i would always find it strange that the congregation would cheer and clap when Kong Hee went on stage, but he, like other pastors, would remind them to give an even louder applause to God, the God that they gathered in church to worship. They clapped and cheered for God even louder than they ever did for any man. And then i realised it is just in their culture to show support and love to their leaders and fellow members. It doesn\’t mean that they idolize him.
The following few paragraphs of the above article were really disappointing. Michelle started off the article by saying that she was writing \”not to judge the people involved in the saga\” but as i read on i felt like there was actually a judgement made. If you are expecting an apology from Pastor Kong and his church members, am i wrong to say that Michelle has already made the judgement that Pastor Kong is guilty and that the members are supporting his sinful actions? He has not been proven guilty, and until the day it can be proven, i don\’t think that it makes sense for a Christian to be making that statement. It is obvious that he hasn\’t made an apology because from his side of the story he doesn\’t think he has committed a sin, and likewise the church members choose to believe that he is innocent and hence see no need for an apology.
I am not saying that i believe Pastor Kong is innocent or guilty, but i believe that if he is found guilty, he would definitely confess his sins because this is what he has taught me and thousand others through the many sermons we have sat through.
I agree that actions speak louder than words, and i have seen this lived out through Pastor Kong\’s life. He speaks of choosing love and reaching out to those who need God. And CHC is the biggest example of how he turned his words into action and brought hundreds of thousands to Christ through his church and ministries all over the world.
I hope you understand that as a young Christian i still have a lot to learn about God and His word, but everything i have written here is based on what i have learnt growing up and it is what i believe in. Also i am not using this as a attack against anyone who agrees with Michelle here, neither am i supporting the actions of CHC members. I just wanted to correct some things that i believe are mistaken.
Till the verdict is out, we shouldn\’t be quick to make our own judgement.
yep said
TRUE.
Peter said
Thank you for introducing a balanced and responsible christian perspective. The gospel is grace and truth (John 1:17) the biggest cause of disunity amongst christians is when they start speaking truth without grace – this is a key strategy of the enemy. Paul reminds us in his letter to the Ephesians to speak only “what will impart grace to the hearers”. By grace alone we are saved (Col 2:8) and only by grace can the gospel be spread. I’m glad you did not depart from grace in your post unlike the majority of contributors to this thread. Readers (and writer) would do well to follow your example. Bless you!
rudy said
Good on you, Celeste!
God's child said
Agree!!!
GAWD. said
Only seek to distant yourselves in turmoil.
CHC = Cash Harvesting Church said
Christians, in particular CHC should apologize to us instead! Insulting other religions? Check. Preaching in public? Check. Threatening us that if we do not convert to Christianity, we will be sent to hell? Check. We, people of other religions and faith deserve one damn good apology from these Christians instead!!!
tintin said
The Chinese are smarter! Burn the money God gets. Give cash Kong Hee gets. So burn cheques next time.
CHC = Cash Harvesting Church said
Who the hell do these people think they are? Insulting other religions and threatening us that we will be sent to hell? PUI! Can I make fun and insult these Christians as well? After all, they are the ones who starting the ball rolling.
? said
who insult other religions? N u, being very smart, represent your whole religion, by doing back the same thing?
tintin said
Why Kong Hee Needed so much money for what?
To sponsor his Babylon whore wife?
When Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus, the Son of God was sold off for 30 pieces of silver
Jon said
Well written article with very balanced point of views. I would, however, caution against the call for Kong Hee to ‘confess’ and ‘repent’ – he has yet to be found guilty in a court of law and hence we should avoid branding him as such.
filomaths said
Although I am a Buddhist, I agreed what you have said and respect you. You indeed a good Christian. CHC case should not affect how non-believer look at Christian. It is a separate matters.
score said
Yes, there’s bound to be “black sheep”, “false prophets” among us. However, with their preaching emphasis on “prosperity gospel” it was not surprising that a saga like this will surface….just a matter of time. However, let this be a lesson for all churches, religious groups, AND worshippers, to always question MOTIVES of religious leaders and also one’s own motives for entering into a group. All that glamour, fun, networking etc – are these just a camouflage to “move” or “control” a group of people to support one’s agenda??
So, ask the fundamental question : “What and who do you seek? and why?” The truth will set one free.
Ryan said
Is human that cannot pass through that gate call greed. I believe the government will be shaken by this incident, this is a very tacky issue. All gods taught the followers to be good. Only humans themselves that twist the fact as we worship their spirits of good mankind. Christianity is a very good religion , I urge those in CHC to differentiate what is truth to god and not human , although I am not Christian but I respect all religions as a whole. Humans have errors because we are not god, therefore be brave enough to admit and move on. Those pastors that still agree that the moves by those few is correct I will believe that you have to go and study more bible a few more time.
Shalom Chen said
There is nothing judgmental about this letter that calls Christians to put the glory of Christ above men, to be accountable to the governance and laws of the country (give to Caeser what is Caeser’s). We need to remember Pastors are humans and fallible & that we need to put CHRIST’S finished work, not men’s plans, at the centre of it all.
I recall how when the Roman soldiers turned up to arrest an innocent Christ, Peter struck out at the soldier who was doing his work and cut his ear off, Christ rebuked Peter and healed the ear of the soldier. That is grace! Sadly this was not the behaviour at display when photographers doing their jobs were being shoved by protective church members. We need to let justice run its course in the court of law without resorting to boorish behaviour that gives no glory to Jesus.
Jason Liew 廖颂成 (@jasonscliew) said
The clarity in the article is commendable, and the arguments in the first half of the article are very strong. But I find the points mentioned in the second half hinge a little too much on how you would think that what Pastor Kong Hee did was wrong. The thing I find strange about this is that if he was really misappropriating funds, then I believe the law wouldn’t have taken it so lightly. It was probably because it was arguable, which was the main issue.
Personally, I believe there is a line to be drawn and this particular Pastor crossed the line and he has to be dealt with. But there is a part of me that also wonders about how “wrong” he actually was to begin with. Assuming that he was innocent and he was diligently helping CHC to grow in various ways, we would be able to understand better the church-goers’ reaction to what they would have felt is a wrongful accusation of their church leader. There are several practices (even the very first point mentioned on emphasizing on tithing) that I consider “distasteful”, but I believe every church focuses on different things. The $23million funding of a pop-star, the $310million investment into Suntec, are the kind of questionable actions that I would consider distasteful. The question is whether the intentions behind these focus/emphasis are pure. But I guess that is something we will never figure out like that.
yep said
Ur first paragraph ~ Smart.
Ling said
Why the media frenzy and public outcry? If Kong Hee can successfully fool all his CHC members into believing that Sun Ho’s secular music is reaching out to the non-christians and openly playing them during their service, why can’t he further fool them into believing that his Sentosa Cove penthouse and the couple’s lavish lifestyle are not misappropriated funds from the church??? It always take two hands to clap. One is all out to flleece and one is ever willing to be fleeced and slaughtered. Even if Kong Hee had to cough out the $23M, the willing parties might secretly push the money back into his deep pocket! Someone needs to search his conscience badly, while he and his wife are enjoying the beautiful sunset view from his $9.3M penthouse, people are struggling with their hard-earned $$$, downgrading and selling their flats or worst, teens out there earning more $$, at the expense of their study time, just to make this possible! I believe any human being that has that least conscience, would not let that happen, let alone a trusted messenger of God. Just my two-cents worth opinion.
James 4:11-12 said
“Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only One lawgiver and judge, He who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?” James 4:11-12
IT said
Recently i got into a car accident where someone bumped the ass of my car. I wanted to assure her that as a Christian, i would write an honest report of what happened. I wanted to tell her “I’m a christian, i won’t try to cheat you.”. Immediately, i realized it’s something i can’t say no more, and so i didn’t.
P Koh said
Religion is man made. It is not relevant whether you are a Christian, a Buddhist, a Hindu or a Muslim, and as long as you live life with a clear concience and do no harm to others but offer help and love for all those in need, that is most important.
yawn.. said
TROLL.
Isabella said
Why should Pastor Kong apologize? The verdict isn’t out and he hasn’t been convicted at all. Secondly, I feel that it is very normal for CHC-goers to want to protect their pastor. If this SAME situation were to happen to your own pastor, wouldn’t you do the same? They are not worshipping Pastor Kong in any way. It is just the mere support and belief that he is innocent.
Self control said
As chc member, i am not blind following. Cos we did have AGM to make known of the fund given for cross over project. About 90% voted and agreed to go for it. Perhaps this is not acceptable and unheard of, to use so much fund. Think again. If 20,000 of us give $2000 for 1 year. How much will it be? committed members not public came out with the fund. I bless all of you. tt’s just my tots.
Judge Dred said
God bless your generosity.
When 90% of you voted and agreed to the project; did you have any inkling the money will be used to fund hot, sexy music videos like China Wine, where the perpetrator is Ms Sun herself; a supposedly esteemed pastor of the church.
What about the income of Mr Kong? Was it disclosed that the donations will be used to fund his and his wife’s lavish lifestyle in the likes of a $10,000/mth apartment in Hollywood and (sic) Sentosa Cove.
Did you also agree that the donations can be used to buy merchandise items from a company founded by Mr Kong?
I certainly hope not.
As an ex-CHC member, I remember contributing about $150 to the church building fund – when I was just a poor student, and $150,10 years back is a lot to a secondary school student.
Let me forgive and pray the $150 went to the right places.
Amen!
john huang said
until someone in these religious bodies pull some solid evidences to prove the evidence of god, they can go la-di-da all day long singing praise about a make believe being for all i care.
Josephus said
HORUS
Egypt-3000BC
BORN OF A VIRGIN
BORN ON DEC 25TH
STAR IN THE EAST
TEACHER AT 12
ADORED BY 3 KINGS
BAPTIZED/MINISTRY AT 30
12 DISCIPLES
PERFORMED MIRACLES
DEAD FOR 3 DAYS
RESURRECTED
‘SUNDAY’ WORSHIP
MITHRA
Persia-1200BC
BORN OF A VIRGIN
BORN ON DEC 25TH
12 DISCIPLES
PERFORMED MIRACLES
DEAD FOR 3 DAYS
RESURRECTED
‘SUNDAY’ WORSHIP
KRISHNAN
India-900BC
BORN OF A VIRGIN
STAR IN THE EAST
PERFORMED MIRACLES
RESURRECTED
DIONYSUS
Greece-500BC
BORN OF A VIRGIN
BORN ON DEC 25TH
“KING OF KINGS”
Gp to this website to find out further: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ljRKhZ81aqY
“ALPHA AND OMEGA”
Truth said
put tis kind of shit here, expect ppl to understand? and waste time go watch the video? wake up la…dun waste space…hehe, now i waste one more space by replying to u tis noob
Josepheus said
Sorry for not leaving explanation as I thought better let netizens finger out and drill in themselves.
Taken from Zeitgeist.The thing is even with the evidence in their face people are still blinkered. Do the research for yourself. Work with facts and draw your own conclusions. Demand answers.
The 2007 conspiracy theory film Zeitgeist: The Movie states in Part I “The Greatest Story Ever Sold” that major points of the story about Jesus Christ’s birth, life, death and resurrection are not original but are shared with multiple other gods or deities of older religions
The film first (at around 16min:34sec) presents Horus an Egyptian God representing Light, worshiped around 3000 BC. It list the following attributes which all also apply for Jesus Christ.
1.Born on December 25th
2.Born of a virgin
3.Birth was accompanied by a star in the east
4.After his birth was adored by three kings
5.Teacher at 12
6.Baptized/Ministry at 30
7.Had 12 disciples he traveled about with
8.Performing miracles: 8a. healing the sick, 8b. walking on water
9.Known by many names: “Lamb of God”, “The Truth”, “God’s begotten(?) Son”, “The Light”, “The good Shepard”
10.After being betrayed:
11.was crucified
12.Dead-for 3 days
13.Resurrected
The film then claims that these attributes influenced other gods in other cultures over time. It follows a lists of gods/deities together with a listing for each including many but not always all of the above attributes. The gods/deities are listed in my previous post.
truth said
Hi there, may i add one more to the list, God of ancient china was also known as Shang Di….do they know Jesus? No….will they go to hell because of this? No, though they will be judged in their own way to God, the deities u have listed down are all prime examples of this law…
However, ever since Jesus was made known to the world, there’s no denying the fact, God wants ppl to acknowledge and come close to him through his Son ( which is Him really) on Earth’s history, There is no other way, and if u know, there is no man proclaiming to be GOD in the surest sense of the word in the whole history…..
There’s alot of research to be done, but it cannot be based on one movie alone…that itself, is idiocy or Self induced ignorance, which is what most Atheists do.
Thank you.
I hope and pray u find the truth and seek the truth.
Piscean King said
“The Bible does say that we will be blessed if we give, but we give to help God’s work, not to expect money in return.”
I refer to this statement in the 3rd paragraph where the writer claimed is from the bible. This is not scriptural. Can the writer please provide the scripture reference for it?
Cindy said
Nothing better to comment, don’t comment people!!!!!!! Wait for evidence to proof…..
April chan said
Lets not judge when the final judgement via court or law is not out yet. “Let those without sin cast the first stone”
LkySi said
CHC should fold up and return all the monies to its donors with Kong Hee selling his Sentosa Cove penthouse
Conman Chiang said
So-called Christians like Kong He and the leaders use the Church to benefit themselves. They hide behind the cross and deceive the public & followers. It reminds of Dr. Clemen Chiang who got his fake PhD for a degree mill and conned thousands of students of their hard-earned cash. I was one of them and he has yet to refund 80% of my claim which was awarded by the Small Tribunal Court. In his seminars he talks about his Christian faith & claims that he donates generously to the church. In the end truth prevails. Till today, he is running and avoiding hundreds, if not thousands of students, who are awaiting their refunds.
Truth said
Remember, ppl do wrong their problem, but u judge and condemn ppl, it become ur problem…know karma? if noe, do wat the buddhists do…keep quiet betta…
if nt nx time u do wrong, u kena judge and condemn, maybe even by close ones ….u know?
Lin2012 said
I am very surprise with the statement that “the church goers disapproving manners”. So far that I know that media and public have shown us church goers far more disgusted manners that us showing to public. I feel that Michelle you mistaken CHC with cult gathering. We are not by anyway cult and pray to Pst Kong. We don’t see Pst Kong as God. Pst Kong & the team are pple that we love and respect. And we show respect and support to them. Please don’t mistakenly assume that we worship Pst Kong and Sun. And when we said that we have faith in Pst Kong- the literal meaning is that we believe and willing to stay on his side on this time of trouble. Please don’t misinterpret it. In addition, through your writing above I sadden with comments below on that stated that Christianity is bad and evil. Don’t you think that your writing has even caused bad effect on public eyes seen us as Christians. You use bible verse to ask us CHC members to repent. How can we repent when we don’t even do any wrong to begin with. As it is stated in the judicial claim that “a person is found not guilty until the verdict is up”. Please show respect to pastor and members until then.
~ Ordinary member of CHC~
Patrickayu said
You better pray very hard that the verdict is in Pastor Kong and his mob favour or else you will know that this is the wrath of God. You are all blinded and brain washed to the extend you cannot see the light. All CHC members who gave money to the church so the inner circle could enrich themselves have done nothing wrong, they are merely plain stupid. God bless you for this.
God's child said
Patrickayu, see below comment by Peter.
Cindy said
Yes I agree with you Lin2012!! Hope everyone can read your comments and change their thinking towards Pastor Kong and CHC members. And not judge them but to respect people.
~~~ said
Just a general comment, not referring to the case that is being investigated.
I’ve never heard any of the sermons in CHC hence yes, I can’t say whether or not that prosperity gospel is what being preached in the church and I’m not going to debate about blind faith, misinterpretation of gospel, etc. But I’m sorry to say that even before this case surfaced to the media, there have been people from the church who have given a bad name to Christianity itself, especially when it comes to reaching out to others. I’m not condemning the whole church as I also have great friends who are CHC goers but sadly I also have friends who totally hate Christians because of some of your members said/done. So please be mindful, you’re just attracting more and more haters by keep saying there has been nothing wrong done. There is no perfect church as human sins, we only thrive to be better and repent if we did something wrong.
Peter said
‘so the inner circle could enrich themselves’ not what the charges are about at all! You ought to wake up and do some research before you start shooting from the hip. I’m sure its not your intention but you come across like a fool …and you have the audacity to accuse CHC members of being blind! (BTW – I am not a CHC member)
Perhaps you should meditate on, and consider the following passage: Luke 6:36 Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.37“Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”
It’s up to you Patrick.
Joleen said
To everyone here,here’s some bible verses I’m compiled with regards to judging/squabbling others.
Luke 6:37-38
37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
Matthew 7:1-5
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye
James 4:1
What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you?
Electromus said
In this case, I believe its wrong to immediately put judgments on pastor KH and CHC as there’s still another hearing to go. But I do not believe that judging is entirely wrong because Jesus commanded us to judge others, but with righteousness; love and humility, to teach them.
But many people keep saying that judging one another is entirely wrong, in that case, what gives the Protestants the authority to judge that the Roman Catholic rites are wrong to start the Reformation?
Joe Wong said
The Bible has sufficient commands for those who are in the leadership position. 1 Timothy 3:1-3 says, “Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. Now the overseer m…ust be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a LOVER of MONEY.”
If a church could use a law suit to threaten its member for not making apologies which cost him 33k, what do you think whose church is it? I think all City Harvesters do know about this case 9 years ago. Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? Do you not know that we will judge angels?
Jesus is always merciful to sinners but not religious or spiritual leaders because He knows His sheep are somehow dumb and can be easily exploited by the hired shepherd. When Jesus restored Peter as His shepherd, He asked for Peter’s assurance of his love three times in contrast to Peter’s three denials. For the church leaders: To love Jesus means to “feed His sheep” !!!
The Truth Is In The Bible said
It is important that we do not blindly follow what is being practised by any church and absorb wholesale what is being preached by the pastors.
We should always make references to the bible. What can be found in the bible is the truth, those not are lies. And we need to be conscientious in doing this as the consequences of not doing so are dire:
“For I testify unto every man that hearth the words of the prophecy of this Book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this Book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the Book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this Book”. (Revelation 22:18-19)
Irene Poon said
im not christian but what the write wrote i did argue with my guy but was told to not comment as im not christian. to me christian or not is not important as i know sincerely gift and gift with intention is never the same. been telling him not to really take into heart such teaching but he is too deaf & blind by ‘for god sake’ to ever listen to me who is not as pure as him.
Kan Nin Na Chow Lan Chiau said
For the first time i watched the video of Kong He I just didn’t like his Kong Man look and glib talk. In his sermons he reads from notes and there is no facial expression or emotions… just like a robot. Every now and then he pauses and hesitates when he talks about money as if he is trying to squeeze as much as possible out of the congregation. If I had been there, I would have throw my shoes at him (including that geisha-girl)
Kan Nin Na Chow Lan Chiau said
The Court should put this man away for a long time so that he will not go round conning school children of their pocket money and young working adults of their hard-earned cash. The followers of this Prosperity Pimp are really silly. In the end it is Kong He, Sun Ho, his key leaders & cell leaders who are driving luxury cars, wearing branded clothes and living in upmarket condominium and penthouses. It is the church leaders and cell leaders who are benefiting and providing goods and services to the church through 30 or moire registered companies.
God's child said
From your name I derived what kind of a person you are.
Peter said
@Michelle Tan – in response to your reply July 4th 10.44pm
I don’t think you are reading carefully what I wrote. I gave 7 definitions of ‘prosper’ which are all derived from the bible that include things like – a successful journey; living in the Kingdom (righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit); safety, soundness, health and contentment (Shalom) – all these things are not related to money.
There is no argument about Jesus being our great treasure, the pearl of great price, the ultimate gift to mankind. I agree that apart from Him I have nothing of value. He is my all in all. So when one says it’s about ‘spiritual riches’ is that not suppose to translate into our physical world? It all sounds quite pious and sincere but really falls short of our mandate and responsibility before God.
What is ‘good news’ to a poor person (Luke 4)? You can be hungry for the rest of your life but spiritually rich? Good news to a poor person is you don’t have to be poor anymore. You may or may not be rich but you certainly don’t have to be poor (in Christ) spiritually, psychologically, and physically.
You say ‘true Christianity is saying money is not the solution’ …really? Money in it self may not be the solution, but christians without money are limited in their solutions to meet the needs of their communities. James 2:14 -18 “What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do”. Spiritual riches should translate into meeting physical needs. James makes the point there is a relationship between faith and meeting physical needs. In order to give we first need something to give – the more we have the more we can bless others. Prov 11:24 “One man gives freely, yet gains even more”
In Acts 3 we read about a cripple that is carried daily to the temple gate that he may receive money to sustain his life. It was through the people of God that his physical needs were met for a long time. However, Kingdom social justice not only meets his physical needs outside the gate but aims to bring him into the full spiritual experience God has for his life. (Peter and John perform a miracle and bring him into the temple). It is not about spiritual versus physical – the spiritual governs the physical. Whether its the good Samaritan (Luke 10) paying the hospital bill for the wounded man or a prayer to bring healing to a lame man, both are spiritual acts.
Money is a valuable tool in the hands of the righteous. Jesus makes a distinction you will either serve God or money – the aim is we serve God and money serves us. Each year I am responsible for raising and investing close to the equivalent of a million Singapore dollars into our community initiatives Matt 5:16 “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven” The beneficiaries (youth at risk, single mums, poor, sick etc) of these investments see our ‘spiritual riches in us’ by what we do to meet their physical needs. Good attitudes with no action may make us easier to get along with but does little to bring Christ into people’s lives. I also am involved in praying for the sick and see God bring healing to 100′s of lives each year through me – the point is one activity is not more spiritual than the other.
You conclude with a scripture from Paul to the Philippians when he was in prison – an important perspective …priority of knowing Christ. Paul also says in chapter 4 in reference to receiving an offering to meet his needs “Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that abounds to your account. 18 Indeed I have all and abound. I am full, having received from Epaphroditus the things sent from you, a sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well pleasing to God. 19 And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus” A promise in response to their physical giving!
Paul also says in 2 Cor 9:6 “But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work. 9 As it is written:
“He has dispersed abroad,
He has given to the poor;
His righteousness endures forever.”
10 Now may He who supplies seed to the sower, and bread for food, supply and multiply the seed you have sown and increase the fruits of your righteousness, 11 while you are enriched in everything for all liberality, which causes thanksgiving through us to God. 12 For the administration of this service not only supplies the needs of the saints, but also is abounding through many thanksgivings to God, 13 while, through the proof of this ministry, they glorify God for the obedience of your confession to the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal sharing with them and all men,
In conclusion I leave you with the following passage from Luke 6:32 “But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. 35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. 36 Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
37“Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”
Shalom.
jck said
“What is ‘good news’ to a poor person (Luke 4)? You can be hungry for the rest of your life but spiritually rich? Good news to a poor person is you don’t have to be poor anymore. You may or may not be rich but you certainly don’t have to be poor (in Christ) spiritually, psychologically, and physically”
YES. You CAN be hungry but spiritually rich.
If thats good news to you, whats the difference when the buddhits feeds the hungry?
The good news is about Jesus, God.
YES. You CAN be hungry and spiritually RICH because God Himself says so!
Revelation 2
8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; 9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Now i am not saying money is not important.
BUT the prosperity teaching of 30,60 and 100 fold of material blessings of christian
is……………..a HERESY
Peter said
If you are going to write a rebuttal then put some effort in rather than just picking out one point which incidentally you twisted. I didn’t say you can’t be spiritually rich and hungry at the same time. Give me the respect of reading the post carefully before responding.
And please don’t bring references to prosperity teaching that I didn’t make (30, 60, 100 fold) thats just further twisting the intention of my post.
HarvestWest Bible College said
Hey Peter, Ive been reading your comments and of all the Christians who commented, yours is by far the best and true. I totally agree with you. It is sad about the christian community, whether in Singapore or other nations, the truth is many people are bought up with their own Christian beliefs as well as teachings. We all believe in one God but alas we are separated by different fractions, Methodist, Angelican etc. I guess we should start encouraging people to go for Bible colleges as there is where I better understood the Bible and God and Jesus. There are so many misunderstood concepts, ideas, even teachings that the Christian community believes in.
Another thing is as Christians, we must always remember that God works in strange and mysterious ways. Jesus in his time was considered a ‘rebel’ by the religious people, his teachings were modern and different and was not in line with the traditional teachings of that time. Sad thing in Singapore is that people think that it is crazy to tithe or pledge large sums of money in a church, sometimes it is God who has asked us to with the prompting of the Holy Spirit. I would know, I’ve had it before, I pledge to my church a big lump sum that will have dent my savings and I did that not for the returns but because I choose to obey Him. But our God is a good God, when we obey in him and trust in him with what little we got, He always remember us and return I got a better new job that comes with a better pay and a company car. Im not saying anything about the saga, it is for the matter of the judge and between God and Ps Kong Hee. Even though I feel that the “crime” is committed because of a rigid view/understanding of the concept of “misappropriation of funds”.
As you can see from all the different comments from Christians, all they speak is true but they are forgetting the other teaching etc (As I’ve mentioned that they have been growing up with a certain view or concept of who God is and teachings). Most forget that it must be understood as a whole from the beginning to the end of the Bible and there are many themes and God concepts to be understood.
The Truth Is In The Bible said
I am a Christian and I am no fan of the ‘Prosperity’ idealogy because it over emphasizes on money.
We should always make references to the bible when we are in doubt. What can be found in the bible is the truth, those not are lies.
Paul and the other apostles were not accommodating to the false teachers who propagated such heresy. They identified them as dangerous false teachers and urged Christians to avoid them.
Paul warned Timothy about such men in 1 Timothy 6:5, 9-11. These men of “corrupt mind” supposed godliness was a means of gain and their desire for riches was a trap that brought them “into ruin and destruction” (v. 9). The pursuit of wealth is a dangerous path for Christians and one which God warns about: “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs” (v. 10).
If riches were a reasonable goal for the godly, Jesus would have pursued it. But He did not, preferring instead to have no place to lay His head (Matthew 8:20) and teaches His disciples to do the same. Only Judas was concerned with wealth, and what did he do to Jesus?
jck said
“Peter said
July 6, 2012 at 2:39 pm
If you are going to write a rebuttal then put some effort in rather than just picking out one point which incidentally you twisted. I didn’t say you can’t be spiritually rich and hungry at the same time. Give me the respect of reading the post carefully before responding.
And please don’t bring references to prosperity teaching that I didn’t make (30, 60, 100 fold) thats just further twisting the intention of my post.
”
Sure sounds like that with quotes like such
““What is ‘good news’ to a poor person (Luke 4)? You can be hungry for the rest of your life but spiritually rich? Good news to a poor person is you don’t have to be poor anymore. You may or may not be rich but you certainly don’t have to be poor (in Christ) spiritually, psychologically, and physically””
Note your question marks.
“you certainly don’t have to be poor physically”
Pls explain if that is not material wealth you are refering to.
Peter said
You are perhaps not the sharpest knife in the draw so let me say it slowly for you. 🙂
I did not say you cannot be spiritually rich and hungry at the same time. There will be at times suffering in various forms that each follower will need to endure during there life. What I said – is it good news to a poor person that you will remain hungry for the rest of your life but you will be spiritually rich? Its a rhetorical question – naturally people don’t want to be physically hungry for the rest of their lives. So within the context of my post I am explaining the relationship between spiritual riches and how it should affect every area of our lives including meeting physical needs.
Jesus didn’t just come to open up spiritual eyes He also healed the physically blind – a demonstration of spiritual power that affected the person’s physical world. When people were hungry He fed them (feeding 5000) physical food, this was after He fed them spiritually. One of the main responsibilities of the early church was to look after the physical needs of the poor. If the church didn’t have resources then they could not take care of their needs. As I wrote in my post James 2:14 -18 “What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do”. Spiritual riches should translate into meeting physical needs. James makes the point there is a relationship between faith and meeting physical needs. In order to give we first need something to give – the more we have the more we can bless others. Prov 11:24 “One man gives freely, yet gains even more”
It’s all there in my post – read it in context and send a reply if you wish.
It really is the narrow religious mindset that is the greatest hindrance to demonstrating Christ in this world. There are people suffering everywhere. We are His hands and feet on this earth and our small mindedness chokes the potential impact we could have in society to just a few drops of goodwill. Such a travesty and disgrace before God. Lord help us be “transformed by the renewing of our mind, that we may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God” Rom 12:2.
Shalom
rudy said
Wow. You sure are self-righteous. And contradictory. You say you don’t want to judge, but you proclaim Pastor Kong guilty. The court hasn’t even judged yet…but you have. Oh, and you know what? GOD HAS NOT JUDGED!!! So what makes you think you can or should? Isn’t there a verse in the bible that says let the one who hasn’t sinned throw the first stone? You should really reflect on that verse.
rudy said
Wow, Michelle, you sure are self-righteous. And contradictory. You say you don’t want to judge, but you proclaim Pastor Kong guilty. The court hasn’t even judged yet…but you have. Oh, and you know what? GOD HAS NOT JUDGED!!! So what makes you think you can or should? Isn’t there a verse in the bible that says let the one who hasn’t sinned throw the first stone? You should really reflect on that verse.
Kelvin Tan said
This debate between Christians who believe in the so-called prosperity gospel and those who do not, reminds me of the famous cheese and cracker story.
===========
A man who struggled and penny-pinched to saved his money, until he was finally able to travel on a beautiful cruise ship as he had dreamed for so many years. It was all he could do just to scrape together enough to buy his ticket.
Figuring he was lucky enough for the cruise ticket itself, and wouldn’t have enough money to buy the meals in the ship’s fine dining room, he decided to take along some cheese and crackers for food.
For several days during mealtime he sat in his cabin eating his cheese and crackers, as the stewards passed by with carts full of fresh lobster, warm baked bread, juicy prime rib, decedent desserts, fresh fruits and vegetables.
He just couldn’t stand it any longer. He reached out, grabbing one of the stewards and begged for a plate of food. “Please, help me. I’ll go to work, I’ll scrub the deck. I’ll do anything to get something to eat. My cheese and crackers are turning stale, and I’m starving to death.”
“But, sir,” the steward replied, “don’t you know? Your food comes with your ticket for the duration of the cruise!”
===========
The point is, for those Christians, like Michelle, who would rather believe that being a Christian only means being spiritually rich and not financially, that is fine. But don’t feel upset when there are other Christians who believe that Jesus came not just to save us from hell but also to bless us with physical health and material wealth.
In the end, all of us will be saved anyway, since its by Grace but I know which side I would rather be on.
Michelle Tan said
Well that’s funny. the fact is that there remain Christians who are poor. Christians who are sick. Christians who are persecuted. Christians who are beat and tortured and robbed of everything they have, thrown into jail, thrown into prison, etc etc. Not in Singapore but it’s happening all over the world today. Check out persecution.org and you will know. Are people like you still this myopic? Sitting here in your comfy Christian life thinking wow God must bless all Christians like He blesses you hence Christianity equals to being entitled to this kind of material/ financial/ physical blessing – it must be easy for you to say. Whatever God blesses us with, we take it as a blessing but don’t expect it is God’s Will to bless every single Christian with physical health and material wealth. If not all those blind or sick Christians would have long lost faith in God cause God never answer their prayer. Christians in other countries are being persecuted for confessing Jesus, try teaching them your strange teaching that to be Christian means you are to expect to be blessed financially and physically, your words are going to sound really hollow to them – they truly know what are the spiritual riches found in Jesus – and that alone is worth being tortured and all that for, even though they are not blessed with any finite financial or even physical (being beaten is not going to improve one’s health, no?) blessing. And i daresay these are the kinds of Christians that are truly disciples of Christ.
Look.
Christ died for us.
What more money or whatever you expect, as if it is meant to be yours?
CHRIST DIED A PAINFUL AND BLOODY DEATH FOR YOU ON THE CROSS?
What more do you demand???? What more?
If you gives, He gives by grace. You do not demand it greedily. “not just to save us from hell but also to bless us with physical health and material wealth.”? ‘Just’ to save us from hell? Is that not already very very wonderful? The abundant life Jesus promised if life in Him, not referring to abundance in riches. Jesus himself did not live in luxury. No servant is above his master. We are only humble and unworthy servants of God, we have no right to demand anything…for He alone is our joy, our all.
For me, I have a good job. I have a decent pay though I deserve it not. Iam healthy. I never once felt i was entitled to all these. never ever. By grace He gives all these to me. But i know all these are not my idols nor my treasures – Jesus is my treasure. “When I survey the wondrous cross/ on which the Prince of Glory died/ my richest gain I count but loss/ and pour contempt on all my pride.”
Blessings, michelle
HarvestWest Bible College said
Hi MIchelle, it is sad indeed that there are Christians who are suffering. Is not like they asked for it, you must understand for them especially those whom are persecuted, that they are living in a society that differs to ours. If God does not choose to bless Christians financially, how then are we able to sent money to help our brother and sisters in need? How then are we able to set up missionary work to reach out to non-believers. Read through Pauls letters in the new testimony, he urges the rich church to help aid their poorer brother and sisters in Christ who were also going through a period of persecution by the Romans. What I learnt is that God blesses those who are able to manage wealth with more, I know multi-millionaires whom are Christians and without them, my church wont be able to start a missionary in Cambodia, without them, I wouldnt have gone to Bible college for free (Yes, one of them came up to me and said God told him to pay for my college fees amounting AU$6000). Remember the parable about the 3 servants and the talents, the master gave them what they could manage. Im not saying what you say is wrong, what you say is the truth as well but there are also other teachings/concept of the Bible as well.
Getting back to our unfortunate brothers and sisters in Christ being persecuted etc, as explained sometimes it is the circumstances of their society that forces such unfortunate situation as well as the simple fact that bad things do happen even to Christians. Do you know that there are some Christian who believes that if you are sick, it means you have sin against God. Do you believe that? Thing is that where revival is the strongest whether in a country or church or family, that’s where the devil will attack the most.
This is just what I have learned from Bible college and I come from a background of 3 generations of Methodist, believe me when I say that till now half the Methodist church still dont believe in lifting their hands or recognize the holy spirit. 1/5 of them still believes that having a drumset in the Church is not allowed as the drums are instruments from the devil.
Michelle Tan said
Refer to my comment to Reflect below. I was talking about the overemphasis of money O Esteemed Sir From XXX Bible College…not that Thou Shalt Not Own A Cent. Lol….do you even read what I write properly???
I know ppl who come frm churches who think using drums are evil. and i’m ok with that. my church uses drums Leh:OO —> if you attended Bible school, thought you would know, unity in basic concepts, accommodation in the rest????Idolatry of money is a basic concept, drums…we can debate that in heaven ok?;)
My Heart Aches said
Michelle Tan, “silence is golden”, you should stop writing altogether, it is showing the ugly of you.
Michelle Tan said
Oh and I forgot to critique your analogy. Then I guess, those Christians overseas who are being persecuted for preaching the gospel…christians all over the centuries who were tortured (prominent examples included Apostle Paul – beheaded, Peter – hung upside on the Cross to die)…where’s their “food tt comes with (their) ticket for the duration of the cruise”? If you’re referring to financial riches and physical health, maybe people like you have special treatment, special treatment that many persecuted Christians dun have, that apostles dun have, that even Jesus Himself dun have. But if you’re referring to spiritual food, it is something ALL Christians are entitled to.
“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.” – John 4:34
Not sure if you are living on the same food as other Christians.
reflect... said
Hi Michelle, while I fully respect what you had said, here’s something for you to ponder upon, There will always be Christians who are persecuted all over, some people receive riches, some people receive wisdom, you seem to be insinuating the fact that our God, our good lord, DO NOT give material riches to us, that is not true. He can, and will choose to give, like you said, out of grace. And like someone said, some groups of churches do not even allow the use of drums or whatever.
The thing that troubles me is that, you kept arguing, which seems from all your paragraphs, that you are arguing for the sake of proving you are RIGHT.Some people like HarvestWest Bible College, christians like them most probably came out with their money, to engage in missionary works, pledge funds to help build orphanages, donate and help out at the poor, old folks home etc…all these cannot be done without money and spiritual wisdom as well. Now tell me, you sound very noble, instead, choose to rely on spiritual bread, and taking no nonsense of the “prosperity”, material blessings from god,
then tell us….
tell us…
O Noble and self righteous one, WHAT have you done for the kingdom of God by now in your whole life? Besides writing this article which seeks to create condemnation in non-christians(subconsciously) and spread your impressions to the public?
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? with your so called grace and only spiritual bread that you have?
May I also ask, which church are you from? ( Or do you even go to a church?)
I wish to tell you the truth, God is a good God, and he not only giveth faith, spirit and wisdom, but also material riches to help us HELP the needy. If you dont believe that, that is your problem, but do not seek to tell the whole world God is against Christians prospering. That is bullshit. God has made many many great men and women in the bible and in history rich beyond their imagination but they must be humble, and they GLORIFIED God by doing all they can, not for their personal glory. For if someone choose to take a stray turn and become corrupted, God can take away easily as he has given. This you should know, if not, attend a bible college too, it will be good for your future arguments.
Patricia said
@Reflect. there you go twisting words again.My point – if you bothered to read the many words I typed – Christianity is all about balance not overemphasis of things that are not meant to be elevated over God. i am not anti-money. Only by grace are we blessed with money. But we shld not DEMAND of it, as I’ve mentioned before! I’ve just graduated frm uni and started work, planning to tithe 10% of my salary. Tithing, money, it has its value. Yet, it is the overemphasis I am concerned with. CHC is saying money is everything. Kong Hee even claims Jesus was rich, and that money was how he fed the 5000, and not a miracle. Indeed we need things like money, water and air to live….but imagine a church that keeps preaching about the importance of water overtly…isn’t that strange? God is above all. Stop twisting what I say as if I am like omg God is AGAINST us being rich or whatever…NO. God is AGAINST us overly focusing on wanting to get rich or overly talking about money, which is what CHC is doing – I am witness to that since I visited CHC a few times when I was a new believer 3 years ago. And now, we know why he keeps emphasizing money, cause he wants to embezzle the funds to live in luxurious houses and drink China wine, no?;) Why Jesus said blessed are the poor was because being rich can be a stumbling block – Kong Hee probably started out with good intentions when he built the church in the past. But handling such a huge amount of money , he faced a formidable temptation indeed, and failed the test.
“Attend a bible college too, it will be good for your future arguments.”
Sob I didn’t attend bible school leh:( Not as old as u old man, only went uni with my straight As:X How ah? I too stupid for God to use me for His glory ah:S
Hmm….do I smell a Pharisee? I’m siding with uneducated fishermen and carpenters though, btw;) They are wiser than people like you whose greed blinds basic comprehension and critique skills and ability to understand scripture via the Holy Spirit.
Michelle Tan said
If you actually read what I said clearly (too quick to speak but slow to listen eh?), It is the overemphasis of money that I disapprove of, not money itself. There are things we need like air, food and water. How much we need God decides how much to give, by grace. Imagine a church that keeps talking about the imptce of water all day…weird much? What more a church that keeps talking about money. SEEK YE FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND ALL SHALL BE GIVEN TO YOU.
When it comes to giving our lives to God, not only money, but also serving Him, in our time, energy, etc. I just graduated and started earning a salary – not because I’m like ‘omg omg give me lotsa moolah God so i can help the poor!’ all day! But I just sought Him first and trust He will provide. I am sure gonna tithe that 10% (although it’s technically none of your business to know this fact), but I know I also need to serve Him in ministry. The Church’s primary fuel is God’s love y’know, not money;) Too bad Kong Hee believes Jesus was actually rich (check out his sermons) and claims Jesus fed the 5000 coz he had lotsa money not because it was a miracle. Ohrly
“tThis you should know, if not, attend a bible college too, it will be good for your future arguments.”
Sorry uncle. Didn’t have time to attend bible college coz I went uni then now need to work to support my family ah. You got ah? Then how come your basic comprehension skills a bit weird weird until can twist and misunderstand wad I say uh:O Sorry if you find me too stupid for God to use me (straight As throughout school don’t count?:(( ) But look here, Mr Pharisee, I’m siding with unschooled fishermen and a certain carpenter. God uses the foolish to shame the wise. Indeed, we are fools for Christ. but we seek the wisdom of God which is higher than the wisdom of men, and which is found in anyone who has His Spirit dwelling within Him, not necessarily those who study theology formally (gosh, there are atheists who go bible school too you know uncle!)
Uncles TY said
I commend u for emphasizing on balance.
As for your other comment, no money, just graduated? Your problem la… Got all As wow
WOW!
… Big fk?! Lol arrogant and proud u are. Your “tail” come out finally already ahzz…
Mr Pharisee? I think u r miss Pharisee lo…u go read your article yourself u will see how much u have made judgements and condemnations.
Uncle? Little girl, grow some hair first before talkin much la…
Pls show me the paragraphs that KH claims Jesus was rich, n not by miracle he fed the thousands…quote your sources first little girl, don’t just spew thoughts like u think u got straight As your whole life…
Perhaps I can show my frens inside Chc the sermon or links n let them know the truth then.
Michelle Tan said
hi uncle, this is the sermon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jpUfbu8hbA
uncles said
yo mich~ watched it, tho i may not 100% agree with what was preached, the point of the sermon was that Jesus wasnt poor ( he def is not), and he even became poor so that through him, we can be rich…
the thing is, I understand u against the worshipping of money and overemphasis on money, that i understand.
the point he put inside that clearly shouldnt be there, the feeding of ppl…etc…
perhaps ppl got the feeling that the whole sermon was abt being rich, no 1….hmmm i tink its quite subjective tho,
but that point why jesus being rich can feed the 5000 def shld nt be there…but i been to a few other sermons (nt tis one), most of the message were quite good….
Michelle said
glad you understand uncle:P and am happy u have been touched by his other non prosperity sermons. again i reiterate im not against kong hee – im against the prosperity teaching. since Pstr Kong hee probably preached countless non prosperity sermons too tt spoke to you and let people know God better…saw his sermon notes on fb, some of them were not entirely bad. I have no doubt he has done a lot of good work for God…if he hadn’t started up CHC years ago, many people would not have come to know Christ. And God used CHC to plant many churches and schools and hospitals etc overseas which is a really amazingly good thing. I thank God for that. Unfortunately Kong Hee got a little side tracked along the way. I won’t say it’s easy because face it if we are in his shoes being in charge of a whole lot of money it might be easy to get tempted to take a little of such a huge sum. This incident I hope he can see it is a blessing in disguise. Whether he is charged or not, if he can reevaluate what he has done…and change..I have no doubt it will lead to greater revival in Singapore.
God bless!~
uncles said
yes girl, thank god for what all have done, whether he guilty or nt, i dunno , n dun judge…im sure this will LEAD TO A GREATER REVIVAL IN SG!!!
u have good mind girl, just try nt to be judgemental in your words u used okie? Im sure God will use u mightily,
God bless you, and see you in Heaven…
Hope all can be in Heaven, those who witness this today!
Peter B said
“I have no doubt he has done a lot of good work for God (Kong Hee)…if he hadn’t started up CHC years ago, many people would not have come to know Christ. And God used CHC to plant many churches and schools and hospitals etc overseas which is a really amazingly good thing. I thank God for that”.
Best thing you said all post Michelle! I thank God for your uncle.
BTW Kong is not charged with ‘take a little’ for himself – the charge is over an investment into their ‘Crossover’ strategy from their building fund, which involves Sun’s music career. The authorities deem these investments to be a misappropriation of funds. The intention of the strategy was to preach the gospel and win souls – it was not about self consumption.
Michelle said
Whether Sun’s music career has anything remotely to do with winning souls…I will leave the ‘lost souls’ out there to judge
Peter B said
Thats unlike you to be cynical Michelle! 🙂
Over several years the CHC team did outreaches/concerts all over Asia featuring Sun – she was the draw card. The concerts were FOC so at the end of each concert they could preach the gospel …10’s of thousand’s made decisions for Christ. They particularly had outstanding success in Taiwan – many key christian leaders attribute the unprecedented church growth they’ve experienced in Taiwan over the last several years to the divine work carried out by Ps Kong. Through the concerts and leadership training events its estimated over 350,000 have made decisions – Sun’s music career was not only remotely involved but integral to that outcome.
Ps Kong and Sun are big thinkers, they attract like minded people, however the broader christian community don’t really get them. Having known them personally for over 20 years I can assure you they are authentic in their faith and only want to serve God and His purpose on earth. What they have achieved by God’s grace, not only in Singapore, but throughout Asia is staggering. They refuse to be limited by the status quo and seek to press the boundaries of conventional and religious thinking all in the name of the Lord. It often takes a radical unconventional approach to shift prevailing mindsets, particularly religious mindsets. Jesus was extremely radical to the religious mindset in His time – Matt 11:19 “The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.”’ But wisdom is proved right by her actions.” Everything He did was unconventional.
Kong and Sun have always suffered persecution, it comes with the territory of being a change agent for the Lord, however right now the persecution is relentless. I feel for them and I’m praying each day for them according to Corinthians – that they will bear up through this trial “being hard pressed but not crushed”. If they have breached the law I pray they will endure the consequences by His grace. As I’ve mentioned I know their heart and the sacrifices they’ve made to build His church.
Bless you Michelle. Shalom!
Michelle said
Too many misinterpretations of the Bible i don’t even want to bother explaining them one by one. Say as you want, believe in what you wish.
Peter B said
Thats because you can’t ! Don’t be so arrogant.
Michelle said
I can, but it’s not worth it arguing with someone like u who is fixated on his own mindset
My Heart Aches said
Michelle Tan, dare you tell us which church are you from?
My Heart Aches said
Michelle Tan, or Patricia Tan, dare you tell us which church are you from?
annabelleling said
Agreed with Michelle again. Peter B. even the devil is very good at quoting the Bible. There is no doubt that Ps KH has done much more for the church. I’ve attended his services. Felt led to give and give. Now I am just very disappointed.
I don’t judge and will not discredit Ps Kong because there are other teachings by Pastor that are really inspiring, but neither will I perverse the truth not like the many defenders of Pastor herein.
Michelle has done something that many ex-CHC and CHC members questions silently among ourselves but dare not ask. Are we being deceived into believing in the gospel of man?
Only God will tell in His good time….
Joe Wong said
Well! No body likes bad things in life but all like good things, it’s basically human instinct. However, the Gospel from heaven is NOT about the material world but spiritual. Otherwise, Jesus would not have said “My kingdom is not of this world”, or he would have accepted the invitation from Satan right from the start when he was tempted on power, glory and wealth. Instead, Jesus’ replies to Satan were:-
1) “Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.”
2) “it is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’
3) “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ ”
The properity gospel is another gospel come directly from hell as Satan, the god of this world tried to offer his kingdom to Jesus and he has now creeped into the church with all his demons transforming themselves as apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. Jesus warned that “they come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them!”
Jesus knew his sheep are somehow dumb and commanded Peter to “feed his sheep” well if he truly loved him. Will all the sheep wake up now to know who is Jesus? Paul said, “I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings,” This is the hard core of the full Gospel, two sides of the same coin!
Michelle Tan said
Amen. Thank God there are still people like Joe who have discernment and are understanding the situation through the Spirit’s wisdom and not thru the coloured lenses of human perspective!
Janice said
Amen, I agree with Joe Comments.
In the bible is there any mentioned of Jesus or His disciples need to be involve themselves in any worldly activities I order to reach out to non Christian. ? Example : Do Christians need to take drugs inorder to win a drug addict to be a Christian ?
Peter B said
So Joe you are saying Jesus did not come to influence the physical world? Your arguments so not make sense and certainly do not display spiritual wisdom (Michelle’s take) but ignorance.
There is only one Gospel – it is so frustrating this constant reference to a ‘prosperity gospel’ what people mean is an emphasis on prosperity teaching. However, receiving Jesus Christ as my saviour and lord makes me the most prosperous person on earth …so put that in your pipe and smoke it Joe! 🙂
The message of Jesus temptation is one of obedience and overcoming satan. It was a test of identity where he responded at every level with the word of God. After John baptised Jesus and the Father affirmed him, Jesus was led by the Holy Spirit into the wilderness. When he came out of the wilderness (it says in Luke) He came out in the power of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, He could stand up in the temple (Luke 4) and declare the spirit of the Lord is on ‘Me’ – not someone He is trying to be but the person He knows He is through temptation. And he declared he was anointed to achieve many things and proceeded to fulfil all that the Father had asked Him to do. He went about preaching the ‘Kingdom of God was at hand’ and demonstrated His message with signs and wonders – including amazing provisions of wine and food; a harvest of fish; healing’s and deliverance; gold coin for taxes; power over the wind and waves; and many other things. In nearly all cases Jesus used spiritual power to affect the physical world.
The issue is obedience. There is a great commission we are all called to engage in – we are not just to sit on our blessed assurance, pontificating about our religious position – but participate in making disciples of all nations. The question is what does God want me or you to do? Whatever mission He assigns us, we should expect (believe) the necessary provision will come to fulfil that purpose. This is what it means to ‘prosper on purpose’! Its not about the house I live in or the car I drive, its about fulfilling Gods purpose for my life. The only thing that limits what He can accomplish through us is the restrictions we impose with our small narrow religious thinking.
It really is the narrow religious mindset that is the greatest hindrance to demonstrating Christ in this world. This is the doctrine of devils. There are people suffering everywhere and we are His hands and feet on this earth and our small mindedness chokes the potential impact we could have in society to just a few drops of goodwill. Such a travesty and disgrace before God. Lord help us be “transformed by the renewing of our mind, that we may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God” Rom 12:2.
Peter the denial said
My friend brought me to CHC. I read in the bible Peter talk a lot , sometime over talk , talk too fast and worst a denial. Matthew 26:35 – ……. But Peter declared , ” even if I have to die with you , I will never disown you. “…..
Matthew 26:75 then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken: before the cooster crows , you will disown me three times.”…..
I hope this Peter has not been recarnated here……
Joe Wong said
You don’t need to preach your gospel here; for we all know what the Gospel is. Neither your Jesus is better than our Jesus in the Gospel. We dare not serve God with strange fire and we don’t any how serve Him. Neither we worship God by ourselves; we worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth. Apart from the Lord Jesus, our labour and worship are all in vain.
Thank for your offer of smoke! You may keep it to yourself till the Day when smoke rises from the Abyss!
Joe Wong said
“The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?”
You don’t need to preach your gospel here; for we all know what the Gospel is. Neither should you share with me your Jesus; for I know my Jesus is in the Gospel. I don’t serve God with strange fire and I worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth lest my service and worship be in vain; for apart from Jesus, the Truth, I can do nothing!
Thank you for your offer of your smoke! You may keep it for yourself till The Last Day and let the smoke rises from the Abyss!
My said
Some people talk a lot with no quality, yet Peter has put things very well here. “Peter The Denial”, you may have said little, yet what you said is only trying to damage – no grace. Joe Wong, about your “don’t put God to the test”, it is true, and if you read Mal 3:10, you will find out that finance is the ONLY thing that God allowed us to test Him. The question is, do you dare to put into a donation bag enough to cause a tear to roll down your cheecks when you do so? I also especially do not appreciate you using the word ,smoke” – rude. You said you serve God yet there is no single trace of humility in you.
My Heart Aches said
Some people talk a lot without quality, yet what Peter has said is said so well! Joe Wong, you said you serve God and I see you telling Peter that he is offering “smoke”, is this the attitude of a God’s servant? You quoted, “do not test the Lord your God to the test”. This is true. And if you have read Mal 3:10, you would have known that giving money to God is the ONLY area that God allows us to test Him. “Peter The Denail”, your sarcasm shows the low character in you – so lack of substance.
Peter B said
Thank you for likening me to Peter …the first one to preach in the book of Acts under the power of the Holy Spirit with 3,000 salvations; the founder of the early church; champion apostle; and writer of 2 epistles …I appreciate the compliment.
Is that it …a poor attempt at trying to insult? BTW – I think you mean ‘reincarnated’ and its ‘rooster’ not ‘cooster’ …lol
Michelle said
Just curious Peter B..Would you die for Jesus if you had to? Would you be willing to be crucified upside down like how Peter died?
You say God gives you riches…if one day God made you bankrupt…would you still praise Him?
You praise Him because he gives you health and wealth…but what if he takes your health and wealth away…would you love him in poverty and in sickness too? Curious to see your answer.
Peter B said
I think if you read everything carefully of what I wrote you will find the answer.
I’ve lived a lot longer than you, sacrificed enormously …please don’t start questioning me about things you have no idea about.
I’ve responded thoughtfully to you with no reply …all you can do is take cheap shots on the back of someone else’s response. Take heed to your uncle Michelle and be respectful.
Ive got more important things to do …so all the best.
Michelle said
Peter um.they aren’t cheap shots (from what I understand of Christianity, cheap shots ain’t Jesus’ style, neither is it mine)…I genuinely wanted to know. But I meant it as partly rhetorical (means for you to ponder, not to answer) – because those are hard questions. Maybe it’s your style to take shots at others, but don’t assume others would do the same to u. I ask these because those are questions God would ask all of us Christians…even for me, it isn’t easy. Even if we do answer these questions, like Simon Peter and his willing yes, you and I would never know until we are faced by the real deal. Raised these questions to suggest to you that the true blessing is in God whom will never be taken away from us. Rich or poverty, both are blessings. Health or sickness, those are blessings too. Because whatever our portion is is given by God, and thus a blessing. Money may be a treasure as you have pointed out, but He is our greatest treasure. Money may be great, but he is still greater. I think we can agree on that.
God bless.
Michelle (Patricia) disappoints said
Yes, Michelle! Or, Patricia! You haven taken cheap shots on the back of someone else’s response! You have made a laughing stock of yourself!
jck said
Of pursuing richess, a reminder by Paul
1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. 2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
God will supply the wealth required for His work, EVEN IF the preachers do not preach it.
Michelle said
Amen, Thanks for the verses. Esp the last line, God provides everything if we seek him first. Also noted “But they that (want to get) rich fall into temptation and a snare” – this is really what the Bible says! Those who claim there is nothing wrong with wanting to get rich…this is God’s answer.
Peter the denial said
Lol …. Type too fast so… Wrong spelling ….lol still glad U get what it means! Arrogant Pxxxxxxx! LOL LOL LOL
What?! said
Peter The Denial, it looks like you did not get what Peter B tried to tell you.
Peter Thong said
I am not surprised in the least bit that there are still many who stand by him …….. and why not? They are either successful testimonial to what he and the CDC had been preaching ……… sow the seed and God shall “explode” riches onto you. If they are not one of these ‘success story’ ……… they are the ‘not successful yet’ group. They are hooked onto their fiery and uplifting sermons and promises. They get their weekly high and ‘yet’ promises in exchange for the seed they give and the tithe they ‘return’ to God.
God never ask nor need our money ……… in fact, God knows that many times men worship money more than God and it repulses Him. God asks (he doesn’t demand nor expects) for you to give your heart and love willingly to Him by opening it to your fellow brothers and sisters.
If God is as what CDC preaches then Mother Teresa is a fool and so are the many early Christians and Saints – many of whom died poor, diseased (St Theresa, St Francis of Assisi, St Damien).
To see God …… remove the exciting sermons, music, dance, lights and ‘Halleluias’ ……… and you will find Him, coz God does not come in Fire, Lightning, Thunder or Hail storm ……. NO, God comes in the gentlest of breeze. “Be still and know that I am here”.
God's Child said
When I give to God, I know God has allowed me to test Him and see what He would do. I give NOT because I want 10 folds or 100 folds back, I give because I know God is who I can trust in. When God chooses to prosper me back, it is also in His TIME and His WAY! If I give $100 today, is not because I think that TOMORROW I’d have a $1,000 or $10,000 CHEQUE in my mailbox. God prospers us with good health, good job, good relationships, etc. HIS TIME AND HIS WAY! Don’t believe me, try putting $100 or $1,000 to any donation box and tell me that it is greed! So, it is NOT because of greed that we give, or I would agree it is wrong too. In CHC, every time when it comes to offering time, the leader always says, “Whatever amount God impresses in your heart, obey Him”. CHC has NEVER said, “Everyone, drop $1,000 per person in the box and you would get $10,000 or $100,000 later”.
P Koh said
God is never about money. Jesus has chosen this token as a means to show ‘Charity of the Heart’ and any donations be it large or small must be used for humanitarian purposes and not to enrich those who preaches the words of God.
Peter the denial said
What?! / My – Peter shadow LOL LOL LOL
Joe Wong said
I read many who stand behind Kong Hee keep quoting Bible verses from the OT in support of the properity gospel while closing their eyes to the apostles’ teaching on holiness and righteousness as well as their simple yet powerful lifestyle.
Churches which emphasize Tithe always use Malachi 3:10 — “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” — as a bait to those who covet for financial blessing in order to meet their operations need. I wonder why would Christians reverse back to the Old Covenant for wealth when we are under a New Covenant which was sealed by the blood of Jesus when He uttered His last word “IT IS FINISHED” from the cross? Are we supposed to reverse back to the curse of the Law and nullify the death of Christ? If so, please delete Hebrews 8:13 from your Bible!
Perhaps, some may misquote Luke 6:38 — “Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.” — to justify God’s promise of financial blessing where the text itself talks about forgiveness in the pre-text in 37b — “forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
Now, let’s see what the apostle Peter says in 2Peter 1:3-4, “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by EVIL DESIRES.”
…and the godly character we need in 2Peter 1:5-7, “For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.”
…without which we are labelled as blind in 2Peter 1:8-9, “For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and BLIND, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.”
Finally, we are promised in 2Peter 1:10-11 that “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
p/s — My humble advice to “My Heart Aches”, who replied to my earlier post is that If you want to judge me, do so by the Word of God, not from your lip as you don’t even comprehend what “smoke” Peter B had offered me in the first place!
anna said
I personally thinks that the whole saga on Ps KH and his board members in the CBT case has impacted the whole Christians body. It is not CHC that is hurting because the law of tithing is vastly preached in all churches. Many of the preaching on the laws of tithing like the laws of sowing and reaping either touch an greed and/or guilt by the quoting of the verse in Malachi “where the Jews were told that there were robbing God in tithes and offerings and the resulting curses..
Now what happened now is that many gave willing, some gave out of fear, whereas the laws of sowing and reaping gave out of the combination of all above and greed believing that God will supernaturally increase their seed. God does that to some and opened doors to many believers because of Christ and not because of any magic formula.
The perceived CBT on these CHC leaders will impact a lot of givers now because they will definitely question on the validity of the law of tithing that is being imposed on the Christians believers and on the accountability of the church leaders in managing the tithes and offerings received wisely.
I believe in giving to church’s works and to support ministries but not to give out of fear or compulsion or out of the basis that I want something from God i.e. that is for God to prosper me. This law is like binding God’s hand that if I give, then He will have no choice but to prosper me. If that is the case, all CHC members will be like their pastor staying in sentosa cove now wouldn’t that be the case?
Well, regarding Sun Ho’s album, it is definitely not suitable no matter how much claims made by CHC members that these were make believe and not real because as a Pastor she holds the responsibilities to be holy and also to appear to be holy (walking up right with God).
Whereas for Pastor Kong and board, the case is up to the judiciary system and it has nothing to do with all the emotional support by his supporters and/or the condemnation by his opponents. They are still innocent until proven otherwise.
But we should also give credit to CHC for their works in preaching and doing God’s work with the exception on the flaw of their laws of harvest.
anna said
Ps Prasch: “Pringle Gets Involved In Things Like Amway & Pyramiding Schemes
05
Thursday
Jul 2012
Posted by jakeelliot in Other ≈ 3 Comments
Tagsamway, c3, c3 church, ccc, ccc church, Christian City Church, christian city church global, christian city church international, Christian City Church Oxford Falls, Christian City Church Sydney, gnostic, gnosticism, jacob prasch, Phil Pringle, Phil Pringle’s City Church, Pringle, pyramid scheme, pyramiding schemes
[EDIT 08/07/2012: C3ChurchWatch wishes to report Jacobs Prasch’s opinion. We don’t necessarily agree with his views or this article. We met with Jacob Prasch last night – he recommended this article. We simply wish to report what other church leaders are saying about C3Church.]
Pastor and Teacher Jacob Prasch from Moriel Ministries wrote an article on Thessalonians 1 titled ‘The Mixture’.
In his piece, Prasch condemned many of Pringles fellow associates (including Yonggi Cho, Benny Hinn, Morris Cerullo and the Elim church movement) and those who influence him (including John Avanzini, Rick Joyner, Rodney Howard Brown, Paul Crouch, John Wimber and Peter Wagner).
Pastor Jacob Prasch writes (emphasis in bold),
“… Yet because of pop psychology, these biblical truths are distorted, ignored, or have even been heretically rejected. People are just told to ‘confess victory’, or ‘bind the enemy’ not meaning what God’s Word means by those terms, but actually meaning what positive thinking and motivational psychology means.
If one were to go to a secular motivational sales seminar for sales executives, a slick looking motivational speaker with a glossy charisma would prance around on a platform with a microphone saying things like
“There Are Three Steps”. “Step One – realize your vision”. “Step Two- forget the indicators or adverse circumstances, give no place to any negative thoughts – just focus on your goals and on your vision”.
“Step Three – Once you realize your vision and maximize the positive and forget the negative, you will be in a position to get others to invest in your vision”.
Thus , this secular psychology gets into the church masquerading as biblical theology. A hype artist preacher will stand up on Sunday and share “his vision”, and when questioned he will “Reject that negativity in The Name of Jesus”, and tell you “God wants it to be your vision too and you should sow to the vision”.
I have seen more churches get into financial trouble and loose people over this kind of psuedo-spiritual idiocy than I can count. One Kingdom Now/ Toronto maniac in the North West of England who came under the influence of anti Israel Restorationist preacher Rick Godwin literally got his church into massive debt on a massive building program not ordained of God, lost most of his flock , then began selling insurance part time to make ends meet and finally left the country. Another Pentecostal Church of the same denomination a short distance away got into a financial scandal over a scheme involving Christian retirement villas.
When of course the building program or whatever other scheme he cooked up turns out not to be God’s vision, but purely his own and things do not work out then it becomes a matter of “standing in faith resisting Satan”.
When people get fed up with being financially exploited and begin to leave the church, the heavy shepherding takes over and these people are told “they have a spirit of rebellion”.
All of this mess comes from the ‘Mixture’ of secular psychology and the vain philosophies of the world with biblical psychology and Christian doctrine. This same mixture is why we see so many Christians in churches like . . . Preacher Phil Pringle’s City Church in Sydney get involved in things like Amway and in pyramiding schemes. Psychologised Christians are prone to such things because such schemes are based on psycho babel disguising itself as biblical principles. While there are ex-alcoholics who dried out through Alcoholics Anonymous groups and then were saved, we see so many people in 12 Step Programs on their way to hell not believing they need Christ because the mixture of biblical principles and pop psychology in such organizations misleading them into a subjective, universalist ‘God as I understand Him’ view of The Almighty instead of to The Cross of Jesus.
The theological root of this mixture is of course gnosticism, where a subjective mystical perspective of scripture ignoring the context is substituted for an objective exegetical perspective. Gnostics always use biblical terms but have different definitions for them. The gnosticism of Roman Catholicism is called sensus pleniore. The Roman Church will be quick to point out that they like classical Protestants believe salvation is by grace. By grace however, they do not mean the Hebrew word chesed meaning ‘God’s covenant mercy’, or the Greek term Charism meaning ‘gift’, nor the English definition meaning ‘undeserved favor’. The actual and sanctifying grace of Rome is not a gift of mercy or unmerited, but an ethereal substance earned by the paganistic sacraments of their spiritually corrupt false religious system. Yet etymologically, they believe in “grace”.
New Agers are Gnostics who also believe in “seeing the light” by which they mean realizing the cosmic illumination of the inner self. Many, copying Hinduism, they also believe in being “born again”, meaning reincarnation. Sufi Islam, Chassidic Judaism, and Mormonism are all false belief systems who use biblical terms with a different meaning. This is all part of the Gnostic maze, and whenever witnessing to such people we not assume that they mean what we do by the same words, but terms need to be carefully and biblically defined…”
From: Understanding “The Mixture” from 1 Thessalonians, http://www.moriel.org/articles/sermons/understanding_the_mixture.htm (Accessed 08/02/2012)
Can someone enlighten me is this article true?
anna said
The Gospel’s Three Elements
Hunt, Dave
Excerpts from The Nonnegotiable Gospel
The one true “gospel of God’s grace,” which God offers as our only salvation, has three basic elements: 1) who Christ is—fully God and perfect, sinless man in one Person (were He less, He could not be our Savior); 2) who we are—hopeless sinners already condemned to eternal death (or we wouldn’t need to be saved); and 3) what Christ’s death accomplished—the payment of the full penalty for our sins (any attempt by us to pay in any way rejects the Cross).
Christ has commanded us to “preach the gospel [good news!] to every creature [person]” (Mark:16:15). What response is required? Both the desperate question and uncomplicated answer are given to us: “What must I do to be saved?… Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved” (Acts:16:30, 31). Neither religion, ritual, nor good works will avail. God calls us to simply believe . “For by grace are ye saved through faith ” (Ephesians:2:8)—whosoever believes in him will not perish, but has eternal life (John:3:16).
It is the gospel alone that saves those who believe it. Nothing else will save. Therefore we must preach the gospel. Paul said, “Woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel” (1 Corinthians:9:16). Sentimental appeals to “come to Jesus” or “make a decision for Christ” avail nothing if the gospel is not clearly explained and believed.
Many are attracted to Christ because of His admirable character, noble martyrdom, or because He changes lives. Such converts have not believed the gospel and thus are not saved. This is the solemn teaching of Scripture (John:3:36)!
Paul said that “the gospel of Christ…is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth” (Romans:1:16). He also called it “the gospel…by which also ye are saved ” (1 Corinthians:15:1, 2); and “the gospel of your salvation ” (Ephesians:1:13). Clearly, from these and other scriptures, salvation comes only through believing the gospel . Christ told His disciples to go into “all the world, and preach the gospel” (Mark:16:15), a gospel which the Bible precisely defines.
Salvation comes on God’s terms and by His grace, and we negotiate the gospel neither with God nor with one another. “The Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world” (1 John:4:14). Salvation is a work of God and His Son. We either believe it or reject it. We don’t “dialogue” about it.
It is also called the “gospel of Christ” (Mark:1:1; Romans:1:16; 15:19; 1 Corinthians:9:12, 18; 2 Corinthians:4:4; 9:13; 10:14; Galatians:1:7; Philippians 1:27; 1 Thessalonians:3:2; 2 Thessalonians:1:8). He is the Savior, and salvation is His work, not ours, as the angels said: “For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord” (Luke:2:11).
Paul specifies the gospel that saves: “that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures” (1 Corinthians:15:3, 4). “I am the door,” said Christ: “by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved” (John:10:9).
The gospel contains nothing about baptism, church membership or attendance, tithing, sacraments or rituals, diet or clothing. If we add anything to the gospel, we have perverted it and thus come under Paul’s anathema in Galatians:1:8, 9!
The gospel is all about what Christ has done. It says nothing about what Christ must yet do because the work of our redemption is finished. “Christ died for our sins.” His was a past act, never to be repeated, for Christ triumphantly declared, “It is finished ” (John:19:30)!
Nor does it say anything about what we must do, because we can do nothing. “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us” (Titus:3:5); “for by grace are ye saved through faith…the gift of God (is) not of works, lest any man should boast…” (Ephesians:2:8, 9).
Instead of works, the gospel requires faith. It is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe . “But to him that worketh not , but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” (Romans:4:5)…“that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John:3:16).
The gospel is a two-edged sword. It declares, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.” The same verse also says, “and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John:3:36).
The Difficult Part
Right here we come to the most difficult part of the gospel to accept—that those who do not believe it are eternally lost, no matter what good works they do.
The reasons for that fact are grounded in both God’s love and His justice. God’s justice requires that the infinite penalty for sin must be paid. In payment we would be separated from God forever, so He became a man through the virgin birth to pay the penalty for us. No one can complain against God. He has proved His love by doing all He could for our salvation. He has himself paid the penalty and on that basis can be both “just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus” (Romans:3:26).
Christ pleaded in the Garden, “if it be possible (i.e., if there is any other way mankind can be saved), let this cup pass from me” (Matthew:26:39). We know that there is no other way or God would not have required His beloved Son to bear the full brunt of His wrath against sin. The fact that men nailed Christ to the cross would only condemn us. But on the cross, when man was doing his worst to his Creator, Christ paid the penalty for our sins in full.
Only if we accept that payment on our behalf can we be saved. “[T]here is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved” (Acts:4:12); “what must I do to be saved?…Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved” (Acts:16:30, 31).
To “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ” includes who He is and what He has done .
Jesus said, “…Ye are from beneath; I am from above…if ye believe not that I AM [this is God’s name, Yahweh], ye shall die in your sins” (John:8:23, 24). Jesus himself says we must believe that He is God, for He is; and no one less than God could save us. We must believe that the sinless One “died for our sins,” and was buried; and that He rose bodily from the grave. Only by believing this gospel are we saved. So says God’s Word.
Why could not even a Mother Teresa get to heaven by good works? Because we are all sinners; and because once we have broken one of God’s commandments we “[are] guilty of all” (James:2:10); and “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” (Romans:3:20). Keeping the law perfectly from now on could never make up for having already broken it.
For God to grant salvation by any other means than faith in Christ alone would be an insult to the One whom the Father insisted had to endure His wrath as the sacrifice for sin. Furthermore, God would be breaking His own code of justice and going back on His Word. No, even God himself could not save earth’s most notable “saint.” Christ’s blood avails only for repentant sinners.
Oswald Chambers warned lest, in our zeal to get people to accept the gospel, we manufacture a gospel acceptable to people and produce “converts” who are not saved. Today’s most popular perversion is the “positive” gospel, which is designed to offend no one with truth. One of our most popular televangelists, for example, has said that it is demeaning to call anyone a sinner and that Christ died to restore human dignity and self-esteem. He claims to win many to Christ with that seductive message—but such a gospel does not save sinners .
Evangelistic appeals are often made to “come to Christ” for the wrong reasons: in order to be healthy, happy, successful, to restore a marriage, or to handle stress. Others preach a gospel that is so diluted or perverted that it deceives many into thinking they are saved. No fraud could be worse, for the consequences are eternal!
Religion, not atheism, is Satan’s main weapon. “The god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ…should shine unto them” (2 Corinthians:4:4). To combat “the gospel of the grace of God” (Acts:20:24), the great deceiver has many false gospels, but they all have two subtle rejections of grace in common: ritual and/or self-effort.
Ritual makes redemption an ongoing process performed by a special priesthood; and self-effort gives man a part to play in earning his salvation. The one denies the finality of the Cross. The other denies its sufficiency. Either one robs God of the uniqueness of the gift He wishes to bestow upon fallen man: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans:6:23).
Yawn said
I don’t think anyone is listening Anna …it’s just blowing in the wind (impenetrably ambiguous)
annabelleling said
Yawn, Thanks for your concern. I guess one needs to have a certain level of intelligence to understand these. It’s either one have it or don’t. I think you need to go back to your sleep tho’ sweetie..you are yawning too much (jest intended). 😉
God's Child said
Anna, why you type so much???. you make me yawn too!
annabelleling said
LOL…I have decided to stop commenting due to respect to Pastor Kong and our brothers and sisters in Christ. Will just pray for peace and love for everyone instead. 🙂
Joe Wong said
Is Cross-Over of Sun Ho the CAUSE of the Fall of Kong Hee?
I’m utterly amazed by this well written note of Kong Hee!
http://www.facebook.com/notes/kong-hee/wholesome-shallowness/150781603696
6sc.net said
“A Christian speaks out against the defensive behavior of Kong Hee and
City Harvest Church THE TEMASEK TIMES” was indeed a wonderful blog.
In case it owned alot more pictures this would
be perhaps even better. Cya -Melvina