CHC member challenges detractors to join City Harvest Church for a year
Posted by temasektimes on July 8, 2012
This is my take on the post found here
Thank you for writing such an amazing post on your take on the whole City Harvest Church saga. I respect your views but I would not take yours as a business case as its biased and you merely conveniently connecting the dots backwards.
So I would like to correct certain misconceptions and assumptions you made. I may not not address everything but I will try the best I can with what I what I know.
To begin let me first say that I am a member of City Harvest Church. If you feel I’m biased just take it as a view from the other side of the coin. As a believer my views will be based on my total reliance on my faith, hope you understand.
1. Clever packaging of Sunday services.
I totally agree with you! I love the CHC does it services. Being from a Christian family and coming from an Orthodox Church background I always felt Sunday services boring and unrelatable. Everyday weekend certain sounded like story telling than learning anything from it. When I first joined CHC I was shocked! I couldn’t believe that being a Christian was an in-thing and you could learn life lessons that could be applied in our daily lives! I was drawn by Pastor Kong’s sermon on being a problem solver and making an impact in this world.
As Christians you believe in a God who is omniscient, all knowing and all powerful, the church always encouraged the congregation to think and do big think as far as your imagination can take. This indeed will increase followers as no one has ever taught these things in a church before. This may increase retention but if it was just a fad how long can the church keep bluffing people with these? It has brought a positive impact in their lives hence they continue to join services and continue giving because to run a church with all the stuffs that you’ve mentioned is not free. People continued supporting it because they love it and want the church to continue.
You make it sound easy retaining and having a huge following but then why is there still only a few who can do this and why do many of them fail?
2. Extra revenue in the form of advertisements, sales of CDs
Church does maximize it revenue with advertising and selling related contents. If the church has a bookstore built with it definitely I would go and buy as I was to read more or wish to share it with family and friends.
If Universal Studios has a souvenir shop after every ride, why can’t the church do the same? If the secular can do it why can’t religion?
3. Efficient collection of tithes
We do give our tithe out our free will, its not paying. No one is forced to pay. So since i said free will it is indeed a monthly giving that is given by each member of the church. It is given in cash and via electronic payment. Online payments encourage our overseas members to continue giving as they believe in our church and its activities.
But…not GIRO! Church doesn’t have a GIRO system and I do not know where you get your facts from. Instead of watching services online you my wanna come down and see it yourself.
4. 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns on your church donations
Pastor indeed preaches on the 100-fold blessings. Its biblical and thats what church does, teach the Bible. Of course there are other churches who slam it as each and every church has it own focus.
I have been with the church for over a number of years and I have seen the blessing and that’s why I continue to give. If the scripture did not hold any water and people didn’t feel any of this were true then shouldn’t the people already stop giving? I mean it common sense right?
Like any religion “The 10 Laws Of The Harvest” promises each and every believer a blessing in return which is biblical. Isn’t every Christian promised heaven in his/her after life? Is that being greedy and self centered?
5. Quality of customers
How many organizations claim because they were asked to give 10% of their earnings they had a huge membership?
If the church has attracted an ambitious bunch then why is there so much focus on fasting and prayer? I don’t see you even mention about that in here. Its convenient to take a slice of a weekend service out of context instead of seeing what were the focus of each and every week.
You won’t get 33,000 blind people to follow that unless these people had an encounter. Like any organization if the claim didn’t hold water would you continue giving?
Yes CHC members are ambitious and always looking to be somebody in the marketplace. There is nothing wrong with that.
6. Kill off competition
How would one know what is a good or a bad ground? Its in its fruits.
Similarly the sermon tells each and every believer that since you all have experienced the goodness of God in this church this is indeed the good ground to give. The church does give to the poor and needy around the world. It does practice what it preaches. You can check on CHC website to see the reports.
Is it killing off competition? I don’t know. If the church impresses a believer he/she will sure follow. It pure free will.
7. Providing a place where the rich can network
Church is indeed about fellowship and networking. But is every weekend about networking and name card exchanges? No.
I do have friends in the business and insurance. If i find my friend reliable with whatever they do, definitely I would recommend and use their services.
As a member I am flattered when you say its a network of the rich and powerful.
8. Preach what people like to hear.
Clearly Matthew 19:23-24 speaks of putting your money above God. We preach on that and that’s exactly the reason why we have no qualms over giving money to the church. As members its no big deal, we put God’s work above wealth.
But from your post you claim that we are blinded and brainwashed to give away money.
You wrote;
In the video “Rich God? Poor God?”, the Pastor preaches that it is absolutely ok to be rich. Some prophets of God were very rich. (Abraham, David, Solomon)
There is nothing more musical to a money-minded person than to hear that God is on your side in your pursuit of money. The church-members who are more money-minded will love this and donate even more.
Pastor stated that the men of God were wealthy people and that is what the Bible says. He’s not making stuff up and as Christians we ought to be self sufficient and wealthy so that you can continue to give for good causes. Good causes according to the believers will.
9. God pays for the returns, not the church.
Here we go again. Blabbering the same ol’ thing.
The church doesn’t owe anyone any money. If you want returns from the same organization you give money to, engage a broker.
Donations are all out of free will, simple as that. The principle applies to any charity, people work and donate, the charity takes and continues working.
10. Social pressure to conform in church settings and ease of influence
Free will again, whether you are turned off by people or no people its up to you. We still receive donation via our online portal and those people are disconnected as they can be. But we still continue giving as we believe in what the church is doing.
11. Tremendous future earning power
I was in debt when I first came to church but few years later I am now living a debt free life. The church actively teaches the congregation on “How to get out of debt”, “Building Financial Excellence” and so on. I was always blessed by that and applied Biblical Principles which you call “Prosperity Gospel” and it worked!
I love this!
In the Pastor’s words, “You may be poor today, but you will not be poor all your life”.
I totally abide by what he says ‘coz its true! Poverty is a mindset if you can overcome this, you can overcome your debt.
12. Stable earnings in times of depression
Besides being a growth stock, CHC can also be viewed as a defensive and safe stock. People pray hardest when they fall in hard times. Strangely, some people have an urge to tithe when they are in financial troubles.
We should continue tithing no matter what financial condition you are in because the Bible says so. Its a curse to hold on it. I have personally held on to it to pay our my loans and it has never done any good.
People who have tasted the blessings on giving will never go back again. May be you should give it shot! Give 10% of what you earn to any charity you like, I can guarantee you will feel the difference.
Psalms 34:8 Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.
13. Using Prosperity as a theme to appeal to customers
Here we go again! Prosperity gospel is only preached during offering. This year our theme is “Relationship and Discipleship” and last year our theme was “Love”. I don’t see you speak about those programs we did. All you claim you see is Money, Money and Money.
Money is integral for all charities. If you cant bring in the money, your work to spread the Gospel in an effective manner will stop. You cant help the poor and the needy. You cant bring in Guest Speakers, you cant run simulcast to people all over the world!
We don’t love money, we love God. Money is the enabler unless we are all living in Willy Wonka’s world. Reality is you still need to pay the bills.
14. Tax benefits as church is registered as a charity
Tax breaks helps uses that extra to do more. This is same for all charities, its not a CHC exception.
Pastor indeed is runs a business, you should may be consider investing since you already has confessed you love for his business acumen.
Here my challenge for you.
Join City Harvest Church for a year and in the end if it has not changed your life for the good. Please come back and write again.
*The above was first posted on this blog
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Related articles:
Kong Hee reaches out to supporters on Facebook
A Christian defends Kong Hee: Let us not be quick to make a judgement
Analysis into the wealth of City Harvest Church (Part 2)
Churches ask followers not to blog about City Harvest Church saga
A Christian speaks out against defensive behavior of Kong Hee and CHC
Concerned parents attend City Harvest Church with their children
Kong Hee receives standing ovation from CHC members
Kong Hee speaks out against charges: I maintain my integrity
‘Celebrity culture’ at CHC does not fit into biblical principles
PAP MP Sam Tan: It is ‘understandable’ for CHC to support its leaders
City Harvest Church issues warning to media
My unpleasant experience at City Harvest Church
City Harvest Church stands by Pastor Kong Hee
Pastor Lawrence Khong urges fellow pastors to pray for Kong Hee
Kong Hee’s family upgraded from 5-room HDB flat to Sentosa Cove Penthouse
An Analysis into the wealth of City Harvest Church
Defiant Kohg Hee places his faith in God
Ex-CHC member: I donated more than $10,000 to the church in the last five years
Overwhelming support for Pastor Kong Hee by CHC members
Kong Hee charged for misuse of funds at City Harvest Church
23 million dollars of CHC funds used to finance Ho Yeow San’s music career
THE TEMASEK TIMES 
Jenny said
Invalid argument, so this person has admitted CHC is running a business, not charity. Furthermore shows the church’s followers to be VERY money minded and they go to the church to make more money as they believed they would. God is just an excuse for them. This is a cult.
Big Daddy said
Are there other sluts other than Sun HO at CHC for Big Daddy to choose? Big Daddy prefers younger juicier sluts these days. Sun Ho is fine, but I find her face too long and she reminds me of Sun Wukong.
sorahi said
haha. peanut ($600,000) attratcted monkeys?
kaypoh said
lol, be careful Sun wukong can disguise in many forms….
kaypoh said
eg. Sun Wu Konghee????
jon said
Sun wu kong hee!!! hahahaah! that’s so super funny!
Anthony Tang said
Aiyoh, after spending so muxh money on plastic surgery, you still find her awful. I wonder how she looks like before the procedure.
Maybe looks like a character from the Planet of the Apes.The nego singers love Asian woman no matter how they look. From her video(China Wine), it looks like it’s happening
kaypoh said
Actions speak louder than words…. been twice and that’s more than enough…..might as well put my faith in Singpoolz 🙂
hachoo said
If there is total truth in what the author is advocating, then the local government agencies will not have to step in at all. Afterall, it helps keep 30,000 members off the street and trouble too.
The song and dance attracts young people to gather and also attract others to join and network. To access and enjoy this wealth of networks, you need to pay a fee. This is another dimension of CHC beside preaching GOD’s faith.
HOwever, along the way, when the pool of funds grew too large, the temptation was just too good to resist, creativity sinks in.
People always say there are two faces to a coin but there are three sides to it as well. Most people forgot to count the edge of the coin that runs alongside to these faces. Thats what make a coin unique and each sides do not interfere with each other.
Most people would choose head or tail of the coin but some people also prefer the edge of it. Its a matter of choice and living with it.
Like the coin, a tyre has the same dimensional design but what makes the vehicle roll and moves in motion ? Its the egde of the tyre and not the two faces of it.
.
Thanks for the invitation But No Thanks anyway.
sp_go said
Disgusting article that rears its ugly head of recruiting members under pretense of an article clearing ‘misconceptions’
1 year? Really? Takes that long before I realise whether I want to be there?
spotlessleopard said
CHCmembers should ALL stop givingto Pastor Kong for one year and see if GOD will continue to suport his 9.3million dollars penthouse , 1st. class travel life style……
sorahi said
kong hee not equal to god. he cant even protect himself with such a huge sum of money.
nick said
A good retort, not overly defensive, but rather moderate in tone. However, if indeed the church encourages giving out of their free will, why mandate a fixed sum of 10%? Perhaps it can be said that this is to ensure equality across the board and that all members give an equal proportion commensurate with what they earn, but this defeats the whole logic and rationale of giving out of “free” (emphasis added) will…
General said
A tithe mean 10%… Read ur dictionary.
Alamak said
General: So “free” will means either 10% or nothing
Jardel said
Be nice lah. Dear Nick, please read this link. 😀
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe
Singapore Talent said
U want my 10% for a year? U sibei clever hor….
My response said
My one word from Bible: ( to this CHC member )
Mat 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithes of mint and dill and cummin, and you have left undone the weightier matters of the Law, judgment, mercy, and faith. You ought to have done these and not to leave the other undone.
Other matters more important than tithing in Jesus point of view.
Ron said
I will attend each and every service at CHC if I have a written guarantee that I will be paid $10,000 for each attendance. And I will no tithe. CHC has to tithe to me.
I have not tithed as a Catholic and I am debt-free, feel the presence of God and I devote time, talent and treasure (the 3T) to help a few under-priveliged people.
Enough said.
sorahi said
but i am not working. how to join CHC when i have no money to give kong hee.
kaypoh said
give prayers, loool
tat’s wat they give the guy whose mother needed treatment
Lili Ang said
Still can join. 10% of your earnings. If you earn $0 = $0 tithe, and yes, you’re still a faithful thither.
Lili Ang said
I meant faithful believer. (Tither)
Aaron said
Kong hee is going to jail, like it or not, you’re gonna have to face that fact someday.
sorahi said
if their master is sinful, all their believers and followers are sinful too?
Meowmeow said
Few understand the blessings of God as they should. The Bible teaches about divine blessing. God’s plan is purposed to bring glory to Himself and blessing to us. If we do not understand God’s temporal blessings, and His eternal blessings, we will not understand the plan of God.
Meowmeow said
I challenge you. Come to my Catholic church. I guarantee you debt free, blessed for more than you expect and tithing! It’s all about receiving the fruits of the spirit that God gives freely which includes joy, love, peace, ESP self control!
dred said
perhaps you should read the history of the catholic church first, and where it got it’s wealth from, and what it did to those who did not conform to it’s doctrines, then compare it’s teachings with the teachings of Jesus.
dred said
sheryl….here is an example..Jesus commanded, ‘You are to call no one father, for you have only one father and he is in heaven.”..yet…the tradition from Rome, is for everyone to call the priests.”father”
second..Jesus of the gospels was born, in the northern spring, when lambs were born, not december 24, mid winter..that is why the shepherds are out in the fields watching their flocks by night.
He was presented at the temple by his parents when they were still poor, hence the offering to doves, as commanded by the Law of Moses for those who are poor.Which means , Joseph and Mary had not received the gifts pf gold, myrrh and frankincense.Which means the magi did not visit him on the night he was born.
His mother , gave birth to four step brothers and at least one step sister, with her husband Joseph after he was born
The Jesus of catholicism is born..Dec 24, gregorian calendar, was visited by wise man the night he was born, and who was an only child, because his mother remained a virgin after the birth.
So, although both had virgin mothers, they have different birthdates, different birthevents, different family structure..different people.
Same names, same birthplace etc…but definitely different individuals..as you would say ..differrent ID’s or IC’s
I should have said , compare them to the teachings of Jesus, of the four gospels.Sorry.
Blue Nights said
And given the Carholic churches’ scandals with pedophilia (still going through the courts especially in the USA), it would be like the kettle calling the pot black.
Sheryl said
commenting on blue nights and Dred’s comments about Catholicism.
firstly, organized religion have been and always will be a place fraught with controversy .
we are all sinners. look at a variety of religions from judaism, islam, christianity and Catholicism. radical islam has terrorism, christianity is sometimes perceived to be a religion that is based more upon cult like followings and money. Catholicism has been infiltrated with cardinals and officials who stray from God and instead abuse their position in their dealings with money and in a small minority, also sexual abuse. The Vatican is an organization with powerful influence in politics etc (look at the businesses that back the Catholic Church). My point here is that when there is an organized agenda, oftentimes it perpetuates unhealthy politics and institutionalized practicing of faith , which sometimes is counterproductive to the beliefs and teachings of the religion itself.
Secondly, Catholicism is also expousing the teachings of jesus, so what do you mean comparing its teachings? i think it is irrelevant to compare the number of “sins” or wrong doings among religions. In response to the “stop calling the kettle black comment”, youre essentially saying that catholics should not being able to share her/his perspective on our kind of worship, which is true by the way. Tithing is purely voluntarily. that line of logic is offensive and absurd. it would be highly alarming if someone told a muslim not to criticize CHC simply because “Islam is where terrorists come from”. Religion is a sensitive issue. Im not saying this is what Blue nights mean, but following that line of logic this seems to be a reasonable conclusion.
Being a catholic and having been educated rather fairly about the workings of religion and the world, i feel that each religion has their own shortcomings. dont criticize the faith but rather the way these leaders have interpreted their faith and perpetuated the teachings. Above all religion is about your personal relationship with God. despite the catholic church being riddled with scandal, i am a loyal follower and believer of my faith simply because i cannot deny the feelings i have about God and my faith in him. In fact, the congregation always prays for the salvation of our church because we recognize that unholy agents have already infiltrated and perverted our faith.
In defense of the catholic church, i mean no offense to anyone. i just felt that this has to be said.
Esj said
Hey. Every man is a sinner, so are the Catholics and Protestants. Don’t attack the Roman Catholic church. Do remember that some Protestant churches also had wrongdoings. A simple one would be from the local Social Studies textbook where there is the Northen Ireland conflict between Catholics and Protestants, in which the Protestants were biased against the Catholics and did injustice to them – which eventually angered them so much to start IRA.
So again, please don’t say it’s kettle calling the pot black. Peace. *no offence*
kaypoh said
Sorry but I aldy tithe to SingPoolz…. if I give more, eg. System 8 & above, the God of SingPoolz smiles on me more generously, and I am assured fixed % of money collected at least goes to charity…..
and every week a few members get 100, 300, fold returns, just check the 4D results & Toto results.
The SingPoolz church also has many branches so it is very convenient, and in fact u see long queues when Toto goes above $1 mil.
I believe the SingPoolz has wayyyyyy more than 33,000 faithful followers, and no need waste 2 hours every time listening to crap etc… u decide how much u wanna tithe, but the more u spend, the better ur chances of 1000-fold 🙂
BTW if I wanted to listen to good music, there’s youtube
& if I wanted to hear “speaking in tongues”, I can go Lucky Plaza on Sundays or Little India anyday….many ppl always speaking in strange alien tongues….
Unbelieveable said
Hear already “Si bei song”. I like it I too to tithe with Singaporepools almost every Monday (Toto), Wednesday (4D) Thursday (Toto), Saturday and Sunday (4D) and at from Time to Time (Soccer and F1).
Actualization said
That is reality and actuality of our life . Life is indeed a gamble ! Is all written and fated! Believe in this cult religion is only undergone wild imagination and illusion! As a matter of fact, nobody ever came back or return from Heaven or Hell to tell stories about how beautiful and how suffering in Hell . Even the Holy Pope need and must have dozens of body guards and massively covered by high security personnel. Faith is only full of shit ! God could protect the holy pope however still need to travel by solid armoured car.
WTF said
Best reply.. I like!
Just what you'd expect from the brain-washed said
Agree — best reply. Thank you kaypoh!
Meowmeow said
I challenge you. Come to my Catholic church. I guarantee you debt free, blessed for more than you expect and NO tithing! It’s all about receiving the fruits of the spirit that God gives freely which includes joy, love, peace, ESP self control!
tyu said
Basically there is nothing wrong with the church or the pastor.
The only problem is why didn’t they support Sun’s career openly and directly instead of transferring the funds through multiple companies?
kaypoh said
coz the music sucks, geddit? and mebbe not every sheeple will gladly downgrade their condos & flats so that their pastas can live better than PM Lee !!!
maybe said
Perhaps because it is illegal for charities to support commercial artistes?
anonymous said
Yes oh gosh. Finally. Somebody makes sense. I think they have to do it cus the law says they can’t do it the open way. isn’t it obvious? churches aren’t supposed to function like charities, but they do, because the law says that this is what they do. they lumped them all under one law for charities. it’s definitely wrong. if chc has to use money to help to lead people to Christ, then the money has been used correctly in God’s eyes. it is the law that declares it as illegal. idk why. see lah, law got problem, now got this scandal. then suddenly everybody come and flame Christians as if they know best. Singaporeans got education, but no character. education macham useless. supposed to build character, but apparently you haven’t learnt anything in school. your mind is like a parachute, it has to be open to work. everybody is so closed off and ignorant towards Christianity! where’s our academic mindset? all stubborn as mules. please learn and not blindly let your emotions take control. there is much sinning here. pride that leads to hurtful words and actions like condemning people and organisations. you don’t know best. there is always much more to learn, much more to find out. don’t be prideful. let’s be absorb the events first. don’t judge. don’t think like you know best. don’t think like you know most. you are not an expert in Christian matters. heck, you probably don’t even understand 1% of Christianity. let’s try to be more gracious and open-minded! we really don’t know anything. if there’s progress, let’s just keep ourselves updated as it goes. learn from it. rmb it. but do not judge. why do you need to condemn them? is it because it makes you feel good? is it because you like to feel a sense of superiority? or do you like that this scandal has somehow proved your secret opinion about Christians? don’t let your emotions take control and ruin the goodness in you. God says that no one is born ungodly, no one is born evil, no one is born not knowing God. He puts a certain measure of faith into everyone. everyone is born good. don’t sin and destroy yourself. don’t destroy your good mindset. let’s learn everything along the way. life is not spent on scandals and emotions. have a life worthy of God’s praise. if your life were a movie, would people praise you for your deeds and even your secret thoughts? emotions are not sins, but you sin when you act upon them and harm others. God is a Jealous God, but He doesn’t destroy our idols. don’t act upon your emotions. let’s have a more academic mindset towards this. to learn and not judge. there will be more things in life to come. spending all your time on this scandal is really ridiculous. have you no life? are you so terribly bored? surely you have more things to do than thinking up kong hee fatt choy jokes! idk why people can’t be more modest about this. everyone wants to spew their piece of mind. everyone wants their opinions to be known and shared and spread widely. i think we need to be more accepting and humble about. this is just another scandal in life. you don’t need to spend all your energy finding out about kong hee and his ‘misdeeds’.
chanel said
What makes you think our lives will be better by joining chc when you all chc members can’t even differentiate what’s right and what’s wrong, when you all are supporting what seems like a sin?
load of crap said
This guy is totally deluded.
“If you feel I’m biased just take it as a view from the other side of the coin.”
There is no other side of the coin. People who have no interest in the church give the most unbiased views vs yours.
“Being from a Christian family and coming from an Orthodox Church background I always felt Sunday services boring and unrelatable.”
If you’ve left your church because it’s boring, you don’t understand the true meaning of going to church. You can’t relate to it because your skull is just too thick.
“Church does maximize it revenue with advertising and selling related contents.”
Real churches do not turn their place of worship into a marketplace. They may hand things out and ask for donations in return.
“If Universal Studios has a souvenir shop after every ride, why can’t the church do the same? If the secular can do it why can’t religion?”
This is the most offending statement. Religion is not about running a business.
“You won’t get 33,000 blind people to follow that unless these people had an encounter. Like any organization if the claim didn’t hold water would you continue giving?”
Maybe he hasn’t heard of all those cults around the world.
“Yes CHC members are ambitious and always looking to be somebody in the marketplace. There is nothing wrong with that.”
To be religious does not mean to be ambitious dickhead.
I can’t be bothered reading the rest of the article.
~~~ said
Good one … I hate those who market their religion … it’s not a commodity
Big AL said
1. This lengthy retort could be doing more damage to general public’s perception of chc. Many weak arguments and writer seems not to have proof-read it before posting. Some confusing points like “Clearly Matthew 19:23-24 speaks of putting your money above God”….huh? Did you mean the other way round??
2. Also constant mention of “the bible says so” without citing the relevant scripture. I think of this writer, its more accurate to say “According to Ps Kong, the bible says…” He clearly absorbs lock, stock and barrel whatever his pastor says without studying the scriptures closely like the Bereans (hope the writer knows who the Bereans are).
3. “Give 10% of what you earn to any charity you like, I can guarantee you will feel the difference.” – I suggest the write also try what he suggested and give 10% every month to another charity like instead of to chc and see if the blessings will continue AND also to see if CHC will be very encouraged that you are tithing directly to another charity instead of to them.
My 2 cents.
Amused said
Stupid argument. It is like saying: Why don’t you eat shit for one year and I guarantee that you will like the taste.
EPS said
Buwahahaha aiyoh u so bad…… But funny!!!!!!
jf said
The cock crows. The sun rises. Cock says, ” Behold I crow and the sun rises. Kong Hee is like this cock.
So CHC members gives 10%, and they prosper. The cock says, “See you are prospering when you obey me.”
CHC members forgot the money their parents paid for their education. Kong Hee takes all that credit.
Now they can create a special elite church within a church. If you stand back abit, you can see this eliteness reserve for the big donors. The cock crows. The followers applaud. Lucifer the Prince of light laughs. Jesus weeps.
sean said
“If Universal Studios has a souvenir shop after every ride, why can’t the church do the same? If the secular can do it why can’t religion?”
Different… Universal Studios is not selling God… it’s not a non-profit. Universal Studios is not a secular… it’s a business. You can be a Christian and still operate a for-profit business….
There’s nothing wrong with your pastor doing all the things he’s doing…. the wrongs he did? Accounting fraud…. even private sectors are hold accountable for such fraud…
Pauline said
Your question of If Universal can have a souvenir shop after every ride, why can’t a church? Pls read Matthews, Jesus cleared away the things and chased the people who were doing selling commercial stuff in the temple of God
i5htar said
One question> >>There is “”REALLY”” got GOD meh!!!
General said
Try ask the true God to give u a visit. If u dare to ask, the one true God will there to response… Just in the quietness of ur own space or reflection, give it a go and see.
watoke said
i think he’s taking “cock” using religion to “make” money?? looks a like PONZI scheme !!! hahaha…. why these people still here on earth and sharing our oxygen ….???
jaded said
CHC is just a big motivational course, week after week. you attend an NLP course like this for one year see whether your life will improve.
this guy is really a naive, misguided soul that is easily influenced and led by the nose
Ah Heng said
A Buddhist’s perspective of the CHC controversy:
http://threechordsandthedhamma.blogspot.sg/2012/06/pastor-kong-hee-controversy-buddhist.html
kaypoh said
Using your same logic, join Tang Boon Thiew modeling agency for a year and in the end if it has not changed your life for the good (either more pleasure or more money). Please come back and write again. 🙂
JamesCK said
Please rewrite & sign off with a name. Why are you hiding behind own posting?
Just like Kong Hee huh…
Exchc said
IWilling naive sheep Offering themselves to the abbatoir led by Kong Ho grip. Jesus can put aside. In their church is Money God rules.
Exchc said
Kong Hee gang are hell of a Smart Singaporeans. The rest of the 30,000 are DAFT!
sorahi said
May be they should pray to 財神爺(money god) instead of Jesus?
waaaaad said
why donate when u see the blessings? “I have been with the church for over a number of years and I have seen the blessing and that’s why I continue to give.” if that is what your church taught u, i’m so disappointed and it’s called investment when u expect a return. donations should be given at own will, with no influence or persuasion, without any expectations of any returns. only then the donation is meaningful. why donate to a church when there are so many underprivileged people in singapore that u can help out directly without worrying or even thinking where your money will go? there are so many that u can help, eg. the elderly selling tissue, buskers, blind people/disabled people walking around selling items… u do not need to give to church to show that u have given, u just need to give, and God will know.
jaded said
so if he sees no blessings in return, he will stop giving? LOL…
dred said
Not a bad defence..but unfortunately, the matter is this..CHC has claimed charity/cooperation status from the Singapore Government, and as such the Government has the right to see that it’s share of the money it gives CHC through tax exemption is used wisely, and that as a government sanctioned legal entity, there is proper governance.
Caeser is just making sure his money is well invested.That is the problem here. it is not about the practice of tithing( which is obsolete if you are born again) or the ‘prosperity gospel’..for Christ’s sake, He will let you turn water to good wine, wood to gold if you can be trusted with the power….it is about getting into bed with Ceasar.
If CHC did not claim tax exemptions/charitable status/cooperation legal status…then no one can interfere with you giving your after tax dollars to anyone, to do with whatever they want with it.
You can give your pastor 26 million dollars, as the Lord continues to prosper you (and I pray He will), and he can do with it , what ever he wants, as long as it does not involve the government..that is, your 26 million is after tax, and you understand, that once you have given, the responsiblity on what to do with the money rests entirely on the pastor…you would not be complaining about what he is doing with the money any way..because you are too busy counting the 2600 million the Lord has just blessed you with, and the government will be happy because you of all the extra tax you have just paid them.
Understand?
Your government can investigate the finances of your church because it has a financial share in it through the tax excemptions being claimed.
It is that simple…your church, all churches that claim any form of tax exemption, has the government as their financial partner.
Ray Pang said
What a wise reply. The best in weeks
ureright said
Correct.
anonymous said
omg finally someone speaks my mind. they haven’t done anything wrong but they affected their charity status with the money defrauding so there’s a big scandal now. everyone is flaming kong hee and his church instead. you’re the rare one who sees the root of the problem.
dred said
dred again..my apologies..just realised you have testified that the gospel was preached to the poor, you..at CHC , and you have prospered..thank you.
Now get other CHC members to testify on the blogs..about the miracles of healing from blindness, deafness, lameness, terminal cancer, and so on..that is the real business of the church..to do what no one can do…as Jesus did.
Go on ask your cell groups..get those testimonies out now..and let all of Singapore know that miracles happen at CHC because the Holy Spirit is there to confirm the word of the Lord that is preached.
I am not for defending your pastor or your church..but for the Christ who died for us, who sent the Holy Spirit to give us the power to be His witnesses, through signs and wonders, and not through wise and persuasive words ( paraphrasing Paul in 1 Corinthians).
Material prosperity is only possible when the nation you are in, does not persecute you.
But Miraculous prosperity is brought out by persecution.
“A preacher who truely has miraculous power does not need body guards.”
denim said
I am very apprehensive and skeptical when a church starts using its ‘HUMAN WISDOM’ to generate income and attract members.
“Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the LORD weighs the heart.” Prov 21:2
zen said
Judgement Day coming soon
They are going CHC Changi Home for Crimmal
dfghjkl said
aiyoooohhhh you dont want to give then dont fucking give lah! They cant force you into it.
crap@sickening.com said
i hope will kana eternal jail and then we will see whether follower will still follow eternally. Sounds like pj duncan eternal love. long time never listen to this song liao
Mikey said
Obviously the church doesn’t teach grammar.
Takdemakna said
Ya..grammar terok man!
Lengthy sumore..
Unknown said
I wasted 10mins of my life reading this article.
sadd said
Money is not the enabler as you said, God and Love (which is God) is the enabler. As for bringing people to christ, you say it as “to think and do big think as far as your imagination can take”. Wrong. It’s to think and do big as far as God tells us to. God draws people to Christ not men. What’s the point of bringing in a bunch of people to meet a quota?
龍的传人 said
现在要想的是如何善后!
如果被查封?被淸盘?谁接任总主敎职位?捐款如何处理?三十萬会员何去何从?达成会场如何是好?
这些才是讨论的重点!人是向前看，不要往后讨论!
Nick said
三万会员，不是三十万，吓死人啊！
OrdinaryMan said
Bloody talk cock like sing song. Why not have naked female sweet young thing dancing on the stage while Kong-cum Hee collect his weekly allowance ? I believe since this Kong-cum has you all psycho nothing s a crime or immoral anymore as long as it’s done in god’s name. What stupid logic is this ? If you give so that you expect to get more in return is itself a sinful thought. What s your god or this Kong-cum teaching you ??? This teaching s so wrong and you write with such conviction is amazing… Wake up wake up.
sorahi said
yes. performing bar top dancing durimg church service can collect more money. isnt it?
Laws of Nature said
“30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns on your church donations
Pastor indeed preaches on the 100-fold blessings. Its biblical and thats what church does, teach the Bible”.
This deluded CHC sheep is totally brainwashed by Con Hee. He doesnt even know his BIBLE…and wrote that getting rich thru “prosperity gospel” is quote ..”biblical”
Many CHC attendees must be motivated by the snake-oil salesman’s $9.3 million Sentosa Cove penthouse!!
Hello, CHC Deluded Sheep, please read your bible… and don’t juist listen to ConHee but others like:
Kan Nin Na Chow Lan Chiau said
Kong Hee is the devil in disguise. Look at his face and into the depths of his eyes.
Ron said
I want to see more of this honest Preacher. Pls let us have the church website. Thanks.
CHC followers should see this video.
Thought-provoking said
The fact that this video is so old and that prosperity preaching is still so widespread in the US, and so revered by the 30,000 plus really shows that suckers were/are/will be born every minute.
Just what you'd expect from the brain-washed said
This is just what you’d expect from the brain-washed!
This zombie is still tryng to increase their brood’s membership – join us and be brain-washed. If you’re still not brain-washed afte a year, you may go, since we will not be able to milk as much as we like from you!
龍的传人 said
中毒太深!首先让他先服一公升的抗生素一天8次饭后服用方有效率，出门需带眼遮掩盖眼睛及耳机，以让眼耳淸静不受外来干拢。七七四十九年必能全治!宫廷主传秘方。哈哈大笑没烦恼！上帝庇佑!悪魔远离众生。
Kan Nin Na Chow Lan Chiau said
The more members CHC can recruit the more revenue they will get. Take NTUC for example. Even the the FTs and Banagalas can apply for the NTUC Card and paying $10.00 per month for membership. Multiply $10 x 2,000,000 and NTUC collects a staggering $20,000,000.00 per month for nothing.
CHC Detractor said
Hi, CHC member …”(challenges detractors to join City Harvest Church for a year)”
I will join CHC when the $50.6 million-fraudster ConHee and his gang of cheats (am sure there are more than 4) are rightfully jailed for CBT.
Another condition for my joining CHC is: you have to publicly apologise for misquoting the holy book re. Prosperity Theology.
U ask for it! said
He probably uses his kidney to think and talk from his ass. In fact one second is far too much not to mentioned A YEAR.
U must be kidding.
easy said
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/unreported-world/4od#3268166
Well guys THIS PROSPERITY GOSPEL has created more troubles than blessing for the people. In fact, the above link is a true report from Nigeria. It sadden my heart to see a young cripple boy walking into a service with hope of healing but left in despair. However, the preacher just leave without a sense of guilt and shame. He think that the money is rightfully his because of his great work even the Reporter Seyi Rhodes from UK question about his motive.
In view of the person comment on CHC, perhaps I think he should reread the bible instead basing on the prosperity gospel teaching
Paul told Timothy in 1 Timothy 6:6-10
“But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.”
Btw, I am not a Christian
Chip said
33 thousand people can’t be wrong? How about 3.3 million people telling you something is wrong? If 33k can hold water…3.3m can hold the ocean!! Please wake up…moreover this is NOT about persecuting the church and it’s members, however ” misguided” they are…it’s about a few people, lead by a charismatic leader, doing wrong and MAY have committed administration crimes, even fraud.
Thinker said
Very very weak arguments that presented nothing but the worst of chc…
You’ve just done the opposite, my dear friend. I’m a free thinker and is quite objective thus far until I read your post.
dred said
thinker…if you are interested..here are a few pointers that I have found:
1. forget the church..get to know the founder..Jesus Christ..read about Him for yourself in the four gospels in the Bible, and decide for yourself, would you follow Him.
2. Once you establish a personal relationship with Him, then you are the church….you do not go to church, but you go for fellowship.
3. The Lord Himself will guide you to the fellowship where you will grow the best…the ‘church’ He wants for you, is the one that you immediately feel at home with, the moment you walk in..because it is not about the people or the pastor, it is about you and Jesus first.
4. once you have the relationship with Jesus, then no amount of peer pressure can affect you.
5. And the basic things about ‘christianity’ is summed up by these few commands..
a . Always listen to Jesus only.
b. practice His words only
c. and ask Jesus to introduce you to the person of the Holy Spirit. When you get to know Him , your life will become, not just a moral life, but a miraculous life. Be blessed.
SicknPoorian said
Some of us are just happy to be a sucker…………….
Think Free and Fair said
I am the writer of the wealth analysis articles. I have replied to the rebuttal. Still waiting for a reply.
Hi One Punch Inch,
I am grateful to any reader who take the time to read my long analysis on City Harvest. I feel even more grateful to have someone who not only read it thoroughly, but created a blog to write a long point-by-point rebuttal. For this, I am very grateful to you. I am indebted to reply you.
The thrust of my analysis lies in laying out the reasons for the immense wealth of City Harvest Church. Your response does not contradict my conclusion that City Harvest is a wonderful business. I am glad that a customer of City Harvest emphasize several times that his giving is out of free will. No business is sustainable if the customer is coerced to pay. He will pay once and that is the end. A good business is one with customers who keep paying for the services and still feel very happy about it.
A really excellent business is one in which customers not only pay but even defend it when it is under attack. You are an excellent example of such a fine customer. You have reinforced my belief that City Harvest has a very good business model because of great customers like you.
I could sense from your post that you benefited as a member of CHC. The decent thing to do then is to stay loyal to the church which you have demonstrated. A decent person should return favors and repay moral debts. However, repayment of moral debts should be fair. There is a perception among netizens that some CHC members are paying more to the church than to their own parents. This is totally out of line with our sense of fairness, Christians or non-Christians. If it is fine with you, I would like to hear from a CHC member on this issue. Thank you.
Observer said
I was from CHC, attended that church for more than 1 year. Disgusted by the way they attack a fellow church. They send spies to attend another church which I believe has “stolen” many of their members. They bought their sermon CD, listened and attack the other church’s sermon point by point (according to their own intepretation and often taken out of context). They even cancel their free shuttle bus service in order to produce FREE CDs “antinomial” to specially target that particular church. Every service is about giving until your heart break, but the funny thing is that, did Kong Hee lead by example by giving until his heart break? People there are brainwashed, I have heard people there saying “Pastor Kong can never be wrong.” All my CHC friends who has a brain to think for themselves has already left. The core message of CHC is: God will bless you many folds, IF you give to HIM first. When actually the true message should be “you are blessed with many folds because of what Christ has done on the cross, regardless of whether you give or you do not give.” CHC has twisted the “prosperity gospel” and instead of preaching about the centrality of Christ and his work, they preach only one thing : “Give until your heart break, Give until tears flow down your cheek.” Don’t believe me? I challenge you to attend CHC for a year and you will realise the core message is asking you to give money, week after week.
Esj said
Sounds like a heresy! It’s either the pastor preached wrongly or the congregation interpreted wrongly or outsiders misinterpreted. Cos material wealth should never be emphasized and attacking other churches is definitely against God’s commandment of Love. So, all Christians need to pray for our brothers & sisters in Christ.
God we praise you, God we bless you, God we name you Sovereign LORD! Please do justice and guide us with your righteousness and Love. For the sake of Christ’s sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world. Amen.
Leo said
Author has no idea what Christanity is all about. No idea of what the bible is saying. Hope he/she could one day be enlightened by the true teaching of the bible. Like any other religion, one is nothing without understanding what is the true teaching.
jck said
“2. Extra revenue in the form of advertisements, sales of CDs
Church does maximize it revenue with advertising and selling related contents. If the church has a bookstore built with it definitely I would go and buy as I was to read more or wish to share it with family and friends.
If Universal Studios has a souvenir shop after every ride, why can’t the church do the same? If the secular can do it why can’t religion?”
i stopped reading after this. If this is what CHC is teaching you…..Woe
John12
30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. 31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
2Cor4
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
1 John 4
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us.
1 John 2
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
It only takes a bit of leaven to corrupt the whole lump
Gal5
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
BTW secular is of the world
weak justice said
weak arguments, got no facts to substantiate! where in the bible does it say 100 fold rewards? falttered that the church has rich and powerful members? so not rich and powerless cannot join issit? elitist mentality!!! so go to churches like CHC can help pay your bills?! geat real!!! hope the gahmen close down this church that preaches greed for good and lock away con men like KH and company for life!!! that I will pray hard for it to happen!!!!
@weak justice said
I think KH refers to parable of the sower where Jesus concluded about the harvest result is 30 fold/60 fold/100 fold for seeds sown on correct ground. Maybe he thinks CHC is the correct ground lah, so members expect 100 fold returns…….
The actual interpretation is already clearly explained by Jesus on this parable after his disciples asked him the real meaning. Nothing got to do with $$$.
Ex-CHC exthusiast said
CHC member just don’t get it, does he? I was in CHC for 3 months, bought some Sun Ho CDs, ‘tithed’ to the church for that period and loads of unanswered questions on integrity and doctrine surfaced triggered my exit. No, I don’t want to go back to CHC again for I want to have nothing to do with blasphemy and sedition. I am just mere mortal who just want to do my part for God, not against God.
I challenge the writer to stop giving to CHC financially but channel the money to
WHO – http://www.who.int/en/
UNICEF – http://www.unicef.org/
RED CROSS – http://www.icrc.org/eng/index.jsp
We as christians don’t need any return from God and God does not need our stinking cash. But we do our part as Christians in order to build up riches in heaven whereby nothing can threaten its existance. Riches in heaven are not gold and silver but deeds we do that please God. Many Christians are doing their part anonymously to help these organisations protect the needy, therefore certainly doing the will of God, but they don’t need sentosa cove or China Wine to show the great might of God. Jesus was born in a manger, lived life in physical poverty, died on the cross and was resurrected to ascend heaven and become our redeemer. Stop twisting the scripture, trying to justify the evil conceived from the prosperity gospel. My cell group members and myself have a hard time trying to convey Christian messages to non believers with Kong Hee and his nonsense prevailing but no one will judge you for you answer to the one whom you should truely fear.
john chia said
Good reply.
dred said
you will find this is the best time to convey the message of Christ, because of the publicity..especially if you follow Jesus’ method…a demonstration of power with the healing of the sick first, followed by the good news.
Don’t complain about the effect of CHC…in fact, they have made it so much easier to discuss about Jesus, you should thank them. if your own message is effective, no one can resist you. Try a demonstration of the Lord’s power first, before you share the gospel next time, you will find your audience much more willing to listen.
Remember, a splinter can stop you from seeing clearly, just as effectively as a plank.
Thinker said
Good point, Dred. As a non-christian, I’m beginning to show interest in knowing more about Christianity because of this spate of events.
Bebek Panggang said
This is how they do it… (one of many)
[IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u433/bebekpanggang80/600488_10151018519496842_2048061726_n.jpg[/IMG]
TT said
Only 3 words to describe….. What an IDIOT!!
Overview said
The funny thing is when people of other religions or Christians but from different churches say that CHC members are brainwashed, I doubt this is what they will think about themselves. Because this word ‘brainwash’ does not exist in their dictionary. How can they acknowledge a trait if it does not exist to them? Human nature is that people feel compelled to defend their beliefs and values when these are being attacked, because people are self-preserving creatures. These members have already adopted a certain way of thinking and it is not easy to change someone’s opinion, let alone their way of thinking.
I think it is useful to try and imagine oneself as CHC member to see why they still support their pastor in spite of this: Some reasons are, they have benefitted from it eg. turn over a new leaf like maybe from bad person to good person, become from poor to rich, become a better person in terms of character, compassion, or kindness, carved out a successful career, change from introvert to extrovert, met their spouses through church, or maybe some even become more spiritual, well anything is possible. There has got to be some benefits that CHC members attain and it is precisely these gains, be it tangible or intangible, they get that form the root of their support for their pastor.
To be fair, I think what this saga has done is to create awareness of the prosperity gospel, which is more important than the fact that an act of financial misrepresentation occurred, though it can be said they are mutually exclusive. Not every preacher of prosperity gospel is inclined towards misusing of funds, though in this case the latter was what led to the root of the problem. But then again, money is not the root of all evil; the greed of money is the root of all evil.
The reality is that it may be an uphill task to help some of the current members see things in a new way, but there is hope for future members-to-be or not-to-be-members, that they can make a more informed choice and just maybe, when the membership shows signs of dwindling, that’s when you know the real change has started.
Jack sparrow said
Brace yourself humans. DAJJAL has arrived.
AMy said
that is precisely why city harvest is so big, because it is using money to draw people to God instead of God. there are other big churches in singapore who do not resort to such carnal tactics. if you use worldly tactics to win the world, obviously the world will come in droves. if you open a casino in your church and invite the gamblers to gamble they will come gamble. kong hee used the term ‘worldly holiness’. what an oxymoron! how can there be worldly holiness. we are in the world but not of. we are supposed to be 100% holy. all your money talk…is sickening…and depriving those people who genuinely want to hear more of God and less of money…I am sure there are these spiritually thirsty souls in city harvest too…all these talk of money…if i were in a church like tt i wouldn’t even bother coming to church…we come to church to worship God not to hear some talk about money, how is that different from being at work during monday to friday!
jck said
Is that true?
Worldly holiness?
1John2
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
BUT
2Tim4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
BozoTheCrown said
The CHC members can binge themselves on their goody feelings and experiences of self actualisation, while the chief executive husband and wife duo hauled it in. I say it is fair… On one hand, it is the dreams and experiences of thousands of people, on the other hand it is mere tens of millions of dollars for two person to spend.
People are free to lend themselves to stupidity and build a bad name for their religion.
Pikachu said
John Piper on how a Christian should view money
One Punch Inch sympathizer said
The writer One-Punch-Inch has replied to the other writer Think-Free-And-Fair.
http://onepunchinch.blogspot.sg/2012/07/analysis-into-wealth-of-city-harvest.html
http://thinking-free-and-fair.blogspot.sg/2010/03/analysis-into-wealth-of-city-harvest.html
Please read what is in bold. This is why I actually sympathize with his position.
Hi think-free-and-fair,
I did find your blog interesting enough as you have taken some time off to do your analysis into the wealth of my church.
I am glad you feel grateful as well.
Like I explained earlier treat my blog as just the other side of the coin.
I am sure calling a church a business is a good thing or is there a negative connotation to it. To me if it maximized investments so as to do more with the money given, that’s just called being smart. Its in the Bible in the Parable of the Talents. When the congregation entrusts you with something, as a good steward you would take good care of it, maximize and do good with it. Simple.
We don’t mind defending something we have felt and seen the work. To us church is a family and we don’t ditch family in the midst of crisis. That’s basic value. People who are quick to judge will suffer the same, that’s what the Bible teaches us.
Giving is out of free will and Netizens will be netizens. If there are unhappy members who felt cheated I understand but most of them who complain have not even donated a single cent to CHC in the first place but feels obliged to fight for the members who dont mind giving.
kaypoh said
Why do ya think it is called HARVEST???
You dumbasses sow, and he smartass reaps!
Religion, his brand of it, is the perfect business :
You Pay & Pay, and he doesn’t have to deliver….
Either God delivers, in which case he claims credit,
Or God doesn’t deliver, in which case “He is testing you”
and you better pay more….heaven’s COE just went up
Tithes are a tax on blind faith, Amen !!!
At least GST is only 7%, not 10%…. AND you get something for what you pay.
I should have become a pasta….
jon said
Excuse me, I have joined city harvest more than 10 years. 10 times more than 1 year already. IT IS TRUE!!! I feel so cheated and so wasted my youth… and not forgetting my 10 years worth of savings and opportunity losses!!!
dred said
perhaps the problem is ..you joined CHC for 10 years…but did not join Jesus during those ten years. If two years with Jesus can get Peter healing the sick with his shadow, and Paul healing the sick by anointing handkerchiefs..imagine, what you would be able to do now. You should have joined CHC to listen to Jesus, not to the preacher when he is not preaching Jesus but just ‘prosperity’
Imagine the ‘prosperity’ you would enjoy, if you can do the things that Jesus did..raise the dead, heal the blind and the sick with a touch and a word, change water to good wine, multiply and change five loaves of barley bread and two small fish to feed five thousand , to such good food that they would walk around a lake to get more…for did not Jesus say,” I tell you the truth, ANYONE who has faith in me will do the things I have been doing and even greater things than this will they do..”(John 14:12).
Not to late…pick up your Bible and read , and listen to what Jesus said..and truly prosper.
Mike Siow said
I think I need to make a point here, for those who don’t understand the universal principle of sowing and reaping, they are simply fools, I believe anyone with a piece of brain would know that this is a fact, you reap what you sow, what comes around comes around, the buddist and many religion call it Karma. If anyone want to donate money for a good course, let them be, why so “kepo”? Look at Bill Gates, he gave half his money away, but look eventually he get more than what he gave, can he be sure that all the money he gave away goes to the right people? I don’t think so, but should it stop us from do good? Certainly not!
Savvy KIng said
Waiting for Kong Hee & Sun Ho to donate their bank accounts and properties to the poor! Can they practise what they preach?
Mike Siow said
Btw, for those who think that a man of God should be poor, please go and read the bible and tell me which one is poor? Who want to worship a God that makes you poor, you thing what 穷神? crazy!
Big AL said
Here you go:
MOSES — not rich materially but the rich spiritually.
RAHAB — A Canaanite woman, (who was a harlot), who helped the Israelites by hiding two of their spies in her house. She and all of her house were protected from destruction when the Israelites took the country. Then later, in the inspiration of the New Testament, she was greatly honored by God in being listed in the genealogy of Jesus, the Christ. No mention of her being rich.
JOSHUA — The Israelite leader who conquered the Canaanites with God’s blessings and accompanied by many notable miracles, including the bringing down of the walls of Jericho, the Canaanite stronghold which was the first great test of the Israelites in the land of promise. No mention of him being rich.
DEBORAH — A great judge, leader, and prophetess who rallied the Israelites against the Canaanites, to overcome their enemies in a period of discouragement and defeat. No mention of her being rich.
SAMSON — The mighty Israelite leader whose strength, which was in his hair, helped him slay thousands of Philistines, the arch enemies of the Israelites during that historical period. No mention of him being rich. In fact, during his period, they were oppressed by the Phillistines and were financially strained by the tax burden.
ELIJAH — No mention of him becoming a tycoon due to God’s blessings.
Elisha —- as above
Isaiah —– as above
Amos —— as above
Jonah —— as above
Ezra —— as above
Ruth —— as above
Joel ——- as above
Mary Magdalene — as above
JOHN THE BAPTIST — The cousin of Jesus, who preached and prepared the way for Jesus, but was beheaded for speaking against the sin of King Herod. He wasn’t blessed with riches in this world.
PAUL OF TARSUS — not rich. executed.
All of the 12 Apostles – to name a few
STEPHEN — An early Christian preacher and miracle worker who was stoned for his beliefs and his preaching while Saul (later called Paul) stood by and watched his martyrdom.
JOHN – exiled.
Peter — crucified
Andrew — crucified
Peter —- crucified
James — beheaded
Phillip —- crucified
Bartholomew — martyred in 68ad.
Thomas —- speared in India
Matthew —- martyred in Egypt
James ( The Son of Alphaeus ) — stoned to death in Jerusalem
Jude — martyred there and buried in Kara Kalisa near the Caspian Sea
pikachu said
Please tell me where does Jesus promise material riches and success (social + wealth) in this life? Please see John Piper video I’ve posted above. It is apparent that prosperity gospel is dangerous and false.
People can claim that it is “nobody business” what the church does with its money. But not the case when it comes to practice that is against the grain of the most basic, fundamental biblical principles.
pikachu said
If you preach it, be ready to stand by it and provide an explanation for every instances where it didn’t come true.
Can Nigeria become wealthy country because many people are Christians?
Can prisoner imprisoned for life be able to become wealthy even if he’s locked up?
Can Christians living in impoverished region of Africa achieve wealth and comfort by faith?
Wealth and comfort is not a right, nor a guaranteed gift, from God to everyone who are determined to ask for it.
dred said
..”Where does Jesus promise material riches and success( socail + wealth) in this life.?’
answers: ‘I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do the things I have been doing, and even greater things than these will they do…” John 14:12.
What did Jesus do, that is adds to material wealth?
1. changed 226 liters of undrinkable water to good wine
2. took 5 small barley loaves and two fish, and multiplied it into a meal that was so good, that many of the 5000 families who ate of it, walked around a lake to get more.
3. Calmed a storm to protect his boat.
4.saved a lot of money for a lot of people, by healing them, so that they did not have hefty medical bills.
5. cancel a funeral by raising the child from the dead, saving the parents a lot of money
What did Jesus do that produced social wealth?
1. The most prominent people of his time travelled for days just to see him.
2. His social standing was so great, Roman centurions said, they were not worthy to have him in their houses.
3. Wherever he was, a crowd would gather.
4. people ran to through the countryside to get to where he was going.
Imagine being able to do that..you would be the most profitable wine merchant in town, and put the other restuarants out of business..you would certainly be very popular at weddings etc, etc.
Promises of material wealth and social standing? Yes, it is all part of the eternal life Jesus offers..but it is accessed only by faith, with the power of the Holy Spirit as we put into practice the words of Jesus.It is not biblical principals that matter..it is Jesus’ principals that matters.
Stanley Tan (@sa278) said
My concern, do you know that by writing in this manner you are creating religion social problem? What if everyone like you, start to write in the same manner by anyhow relate other religion as business entity, do you not know that it may creates disharmony problem amongst religion?
My complete reply, browse
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&¬e_id=10151023463268827#!/notes/stanley-tan/my-reply-to-an-analysis-into-the-wealth-of-city-harvest-church-by-think-free-and/10151023463268827?notif_t=like
Another interesting rebuttal said
Hi Stanley,
Thanks for taking the time and effort to write this long rebuttal. It will be interesting to have Temasek Times publish your article as you are a CHC insider. I would rather read comments written by insiders than outsiders. For the benefit of other reads, below is the article in full.
dred said
your point fourteen..it is precisely the government maintains oversight of their share of the moneis given as a tax concession, you must gather your fellow CHC members, and produce the testimonies from LA and China, that the monies used in the venture has indeed won souls for Christ..preferably, with videos showing audiences falling on their knees in repentance at the sight of the singer’s words of wanting to kill her husband in ‘Kill Bill’. Have you watched the videos?
man, it is a high risk venrture…but if a soul has been won, then . Amen and hallelujah.
But, you and your fellow CHC members must now, not only pray for your pastor and wife, but that witnesses will come forward saying that , they have been saved and converted to Christ as a result of the 50 million spent.
I mean benny has been trying to promote his singing career for years, with million of dollars..like me , he can’t sing, but boy..his audience sure praise God and are convicted of being sinners whenever he stops, and the Holy Spirit is so moved that He heals all those afflicted.However, benny is not a high roller like your pastors…he only sings to the converted. Your pastors took a high risk venture to sing to the unconverted in the hope that the Lord would like wise convict and heal those afflicted by your pastor’s singing and dancing.
So, defend your shepherds and your church..produce the witnesses and the testimonies, and meet your pastor’s accusers head on.Good on you and be blessed.
Remember, Jesus said,” Blessed are the peace makers”…not cheese makers.
“Blessed are the meek..”…not the greeks.’
as you undoubtedly continue to Listen to Jesus diligently.
Stanley Tan (@sa278) said
Dred, you see the wrong video! Browse Have you bother to read the testimony written by CHC members, here is the link. It is open to public. (Need login to Facebook account) http://www.facebook.com/groups/116669658474647/
There are many videos that are part of Crossover being posted there.
Another long point-by-point rebuttal by CHC member said
This is yet another long point-by-point rebuttal by a CHC member. I hope this can be published as a separate article for the readers of this site to discuss. However, do take note that this person is a real-estate agent and he may be trying to grab this opportunity to win publicity for himself.
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&¬e_id=10151023463268827#!/notes/stanley-tan/my-reply-to-an-analysis-into-the-wealth-of-city-harvest-church-by-think-free-and/10151023463268827?notif_t=like
Savvy KIng said
CHC members basically cannot think independently after being brainwashed. They should stay away from CHC for one year, and then decide whether to rejoin CHC. They would realise their donations can be put to better use elsewhere.
God doesn’t require much financial upkeeping, it’s the so-called human representatives who need the donations to maintain and upgrade their personal lifestyles!
gill khaur said
My two cents of opinion….personally I think the programs from CHC is very effective. They have managed to combined all those high octane power seminars programs into a church perspective. Indeed it has become a very successful model whether for business or otherwise. The sad thing is that, this kind of mind altering and manipulating programming is really very bad to the society as a whole. I fear for my children’s future where such programming tools were to fall into the hands of the unscrupulous such as what we are seeing now.
As a Christian, my church encourage us to tithes. Indeed the old Testaments of the Bible teaches about the “first fruit” and tithing where the Jews gave their first produce as an offering to GOD and they are also commanded to pay a tenth of their INCREASE and such tithes are to be put into the storehouse meant for GOD’s people and a portion of of given to the priesthood as they have no inheritance or means of income (contrast this to Christ and the apostles in the new Testament where Christ was a carpenter and apostle Paul was a tent maker). In fact, the apostle have to work and earned their keeps (wages) although the apostle did received love offerings.
NO such commandments of tithing was given to the Christians in the New Testament. Can any of the proponents of the so called laws of harvest show us that such commandments of tithing was given to the Christians in the new Testaments?
Well, many Old Testaments prophets were indeed blessed by GOD. But were there any apostles in the new Testaments became rich for preaching the Gospels? Did the apostles enforced the tithes?
If the laws of harvest is true, does that means Jesus Christ died on the cross for nothing? Isn’t that Jesus died so that we may have life and life in abundance? (That doesn’t mean if we just sits idle God will prospers us. We are need to work hard to earn our wages and GOD will bless our hands)
Is His grace on the cross useless to us since we can do it by our own efforts i.e by tithing? Does that means that the rich in world comprises of Christians who tithes only?
Are Christians Jews? If so why not Christians starts to practice all the laws of the Jews and Torahs? Shouldn’t then Christians be circumcised like the Jews? In fact, the Muslims who adopted part of the old Testaments did better by adopting some of the laws of the Jews by circumcision and not eating pork! THE FACT IS THAT TITHING IS FOR THE JEWS but no such commandments was given to the Christians.
If any Christian is reading this, please search the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you. Tithing and giving your offering is required of every able Christians to support the church and its ministries. Such Tithes and offerings are given to the church and not given to GOD per se. It is not a commandment in the Bible as Christ paid it all on the cross. If Christ is not enough, then what else is enough?
We should give generously (within our means) to the church and the church should donate wisely to support charities and for the poor and needy. These monies are NOT meant to be used to support any other activities (pastors’ worldly business, secular singing career of pastor’s wife included, etc).
My GOD JEHOVAH is a GOD of Justice, of grace and full of mercy. I hope Christians reading this would continue to be loving to the world and continue to be strengthen and give to the poor and needy (within our means) as our focus is on CHRIST and not on any worldly idol (Kong Hee included) no matter how indebted you are to the church.
Also, your Pastors do not need live to be a poor church mouse neither are they suppose to be living an extravagance life from your tithes and offerings. True Pastors will bless others with the excess given to them (living in a multi-million penthouse is excessive comparatively and is not of good stewardship to GOD’s blessings.
Remember, we are the church but the church and its pastors are not God. Test the spirit and see the fruits of every leaders as we are living in the end times where the angel of darkness may even appear as the angel of light to deceive many.
May GOD’s peace be with you, even so for Kong Hee and CHC members and all those Christians traumatized with the subtle indoctrination of the principles of tithing (whether the law of harvest or otherwise).
dred said
a truth not taught to those who have eaten the flesh of Jesus and drunk his blood…in so doing, we have broken the Law of Moses, (Leviticus 17:10) and are cut off, by the Law from God.
That is why all but the twelve deserted Him at John 6:66, after He taught on the drinking of his blood and the eating of His flesh.Those jewish disciples could not accept that their rabbi would teach them to break the law.
That is why , Paul wrote to the church, saying we are no longer under the Law of Moses..(.because we are outlaws.)
practices like tithing, by christians bring them under the curse of the Law again, for cursed is the one who does not observe the whole Law.
Our eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood, affirms that we base our righteousness with God through faith in Jesus and His finished work alone, and not on our own works.
What I am seeing , is the outworking of the partial observance of the Law claiming yet another group of victims.
There is only one command from the Father and the Holy Spirit, to the disciples of Jesus..’This is my beloved son, whom I love…Listen to Him”. If only the apostle Peter remembered to include that in his first letter, how different the world would be.
Zoe said
The writer wrote, “The church does give to the poor and needy around the world. It does practice what it preaches. You can check on CHC website to see the reports.”
I would really love to hear from CHC and the article writer: how much of the money collected goes to do work for the poor and how much of it goes into the church staff’s, aka employees’, pockets. Dear writer, can you pls furnish this information for all of us pls?
The writer also wrote, “Pastor stated that the men of God were wealthy people and that is what the Bible says.” Pls help me understand this: Why is Jesus not wealthy please? Shouldn’t He, of all people, “flaunt” His earthly wealth if even He has any, if that is what the Bible teaches?
If the writer will come back to answer these questions of mine, I will be most grateful. THANKS.
dred said
Jesus has already flaunted his wealth..you are living in it..He is the maker of all things, this universe , even this little planet.That is what the Bible says.
The mystery is why a super rich guy like him, would lay down his life to save a wretch like me, so that he can share his life with me .
As for the mystery of the preachers who do offensive stuff…it goes all the way back to the original eleven apostles..took me 22 years to figure it out. If you are interested, go to the Holy Spirit’s workshop website and down load the Testimony.
We found a truth that no one in church wants to talk about.
So, forget the disciples, the preachers etc…but if you are really interested in Jesus..read the testimony and the four gospels, read them like you are reading reports about a guy called Jesus, doing miracles in S’pore and see if you are interested to meet him.
Zoe said
On July 9, 2012 9:43 PM, a CHC sympathizer wrote on website that
“It is our money. Why should outsiders care about what we do with our money? If we choose to donate and we do not mind donating, why should outsiders make so much noise to fight for us and even arrest the person we deeply trust and love?”
I would like the sympathizer to know that it is NOT your money but the money of those in CHC that contributed. Does EVERY member of CHC know the fund were used to fund Sun Ho’s music career? My mom is attending CHC and she doesn’t.
Do you see the problem here now?
dred said
CHC sympathizer would be correct if CHC did not get into bed with the government and claimed tax excemptions..once , it did that, the government is a financial partner.It is about one financial partner making another accountable for the use of their mutual funds. CHC adminstrators has used S’pore Government funds in an unauthorised manner. I do not think their pastor and people understand this..the relevant government agency is prosecuting them in the same manner as they would prosecute the directors of any public company who has broken a commercial law.
Give to Ceasar what is due to Ceasar, Jesus said. They failed to give the accountability to Ceasar , due to Ceasar for Ceasar’s share of the money spent.
And yes, because CHC has taken advantage of government concessions, then every one needs to know …what they say they collect the money for, is like a prospectus issued by a publicly listed company..they must use the money for which it is stated.
So, CHC must now proof that the money was used to fund a high risk venture, to save souls amongst the musicians of LA, as they have stated on their verbal , but recorded prospectus to all their memebers and shareholders.
If , they can produce witnesses, that is people from the music industry and people who have watched the music videos or listened to the songs, like ‘Kill Bill’ (was it in the movie?), who can testify on an affadivit that they have become born again christians as a result of this venture, then the accused may have a defense.
example: if the neighbours of the 20000 per month mansion would testify in court, that they were converted by the singer and her entourage, and are now happily praising Jesus everyday..then, the spend can be defendable. Even if they just produce one such soul…for what is 50 million dollars compared to the price Jesus paid to save us.
The purpose of the collection of the money is the establishment of the Kingdom of Christ on earth.Your mother knows that…and she might be hoping for the 100 fold return to help you.
Any government that offers tax excemption to churches like CHC has in effect, agreed to finance that expansion.Perhaps you should ask your government, why they are spending your tax dollars to allow another government to establish in your country.
You see, every prayer, every praise, every soul won…even by CHC, brings the return of Jesus one step closer, and He is returning to establish the true One world government, and he intends to rule every nation with a rod of iron..you should read what He will do to the nations who mistreat his brothers and sisters ( Mathew 25). Perhaps your government already knows this, hence they are co financing the efforts to bring Jesus back, so that, Singapore will be considered with the righteous nations when Jesus is seated on his throne.
There is ignorance on both sides.
Truth Seeker said
I would advise any ‘detractor’ before taking up the 1 year trial to make sure it is TITHE FREE! Why coined as ‘detractor’? Detracting the con pastors and con senior members from their mission in enriching theirselves from the conned sheep…
Unstampped Eye said
What are you talking about man? Join CHC for 1 year??? I’ve been there for a freaking 3 years and i find out it’s just a piece of CRAP!!! So you can throw all your rubbish “theory” into thew waste basket and wake up your idiotic idea!!!
Nick said
How do you manage to stay for 3 years？